What is reckoned to be the best encoder at the moment for DVD burning and also which DVD software is popular?
Hi
Well depends on what you are wanting to spend! 
For a free one TMPGenc is pretty good, if not slow.
See: www.tmpgenc.net
Regards
Philip
There is a new kid on the block, TRex from Pinnacle, free for 60 days trial (I think TMPGenc is only free for 30 days).
Then costs $17 to register
Very easy to use just drag and drop.
Does: VCD, SVCD, DVD, AVI, even DVD VOB files, quite quick and good quality.
Mick
Another recently released encoder is MPEGXS £20 from Puremotion.com I have been comparing this to TMPG. XS is about 3 times faster for the same quality of picture. It runs as a plugin for editstudio3.
Andy
Hi
Great links will give them a go.
While TMPEnc is only for 30 days this is a limitation added due to the MPEG encoding licensing rules. I believe the author doesn't agree with this and gets around it by putting a new version on the site once every 30 days which renews the 30 day limit.
Also the "hack" to give you back the full 30 days is well known and very simple.
Regards
Philip
This site has done alot of testing of both hard and soft options for MPEG2 encoding.
http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm
Hi,
We've done a test of some of the popular MPEG encoders compared against our MPEG XS plugin:
www.puremotion.com/mpegxs/qualitycompared
I think the thing that surprised me was how poor some of the popular encoders really are. Anyway, make up your own mind...
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
I just tried the TRex encoder and all I got was sound and a mess of coloured squares.This was by trying the MPEGII SVCD encode.I then loaded the same footage into TMPGenc and it worked perfect so there was nothing wrong with my original Type 1 AVI file.Not very impressive........... or am I supposed to have Pinnacle editing software loaded? In other words is this supposed to be a stand alone encoder?
My current favourite is the Mainconcept encoder, which is used in Ulead VideoStudio 6, Sonic Foundry Vegas Video 3 and Video Factory 2, and the new Puremotion XS plug-in (as far as I can tell).
I would agree with Andy Smith that it's pretty much as good generally as TMPGEnc, but several times faster and (IMHO) with better handling of moving objects than TMPGEnc.
Tony
Tony,
I use MSP6 and the Mpeg output is by Ligos. It's quick but absolutely dreadful quality (for both VCD and MPG2).
Is Mainconcept an extra ?
Confused....
Adam
Hi Adam,
I'm talking about VS6, not MSP6. I agree the MSP6 encoder isn't very good....
As I understand it, the next version of MSP will also have the new encoder.
The other thing to note is that the apps which use the Mainconcept encoder don't necessarily use the same version or set it up the same way, so you can get different results from the same source material. For example, VS6 only gives you basic setup choices, whereas VV3 and ES3 provide access to a lot of advanced MPEG options in the encoder.
Tony
[This message has been edited by owlsroost (edited 26 April 2002).]
Thanks for replying with all the info. Have followed it all up and is very interesting to find out all the comparisons that have taken place.
I have been using TMPEG for VCD for a while now so will probably stick with it in the meantime for DVD encoding. What are the best settings to use as there seem so many variables. After reading a little about it I guess VBR is advisable but there are so many other settings in TMPEG. Does anyone have a general setting that works to good effect to produce top quality DVD.
quote:Originally posted by AndySmith:
Another recently released encoder is MPEGXS £20 from Puremotion.com
I'll second that, absolutely fantastic quality on VCD & DVD, knocked the socks of everything else on the market on the source material we tested.
This (ES3 & MPEGXS) is to be bundled with a new Capture Card bundle due shortly....
quote:Originally posted by owlsroost:
I'm talking about VS6, not MSP6. I agree the MSP6 encoder isn't very good....
As I understand it, the next version of MSP will also have the new encoder.
Yes, Ulead have licensed Mainconcept technology, so at last MSP will have a decent MPEG Encoder.
The MPEG-XS encoder is AFAIK a Puremotion product, it's not licensed from anybody.
The best TMPG setting is the built in one set to VBR 6000KB/s.
[This message has been edited by Ian at LynxDV.com (edited 26 April 2002).]
Hi Ian,
Try doing a right click -> properties -> version on any of the MPEGXS dll's with names that start with 'mpg' - they're all copyright 'MainConcept GmbH' (and they have the same names as the encoder dll's in VS6 and VV3, but I presume are the latest version). Also when you save a custom encoder setup, the save dialog says 'MainConcept' in the title bar....
I agree wholeheartedly with the comments about the encoding quality - it's one of the main reasons I bought VV3 recently (the Puremotion encoder wasn't out then, otherwise I might well have gone for that version...).
Cheers,
Tony
[This message has been edited by owlsroost (edited 27 April 2002).]
I have looked at te Pure Motion site and they seem to beoffering their encoder only as a plugin for Edit Motion.
Can it be used stand alone like TMPEGenc?
owlsroost - oh yea, just noticed that
dohh!
In all these tests has any one compared TRex? I would just like to know how it stands up, as when comparing it with TMPEGenc it performs well.
But I would respect some of your opinions, especially Ians. (Good or Bad)
jimmy the jock, I have tried TRex on three stand alone PC's that have never had any Pinnale software near them apart from TRex, I have then used it to encode to VCD, SVCD and MPEGII 6.5mbits, the files were downloaded from the net, and all worked first time. It will even encode WMV files, MOV files in fact if the codec is installed it will encode.
So I am pleased with it and the quality I think is good, it is simple to use and in my tests is compatable with everything I throw at it, including VOB files.
Mick
[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 27 April 2002).]
Oh and you can file serve to TREX from Premiere through avisynth.
Chris
Cinema Craft Lite runs about 10x faster than TMPGenc with as good or better results. It doesn't have VBR and costs $250 but realy does produce excellent results so should pay for itself quickly.
I have just downloaded trial version of Pinnacle TRex and encoded to svcd.Very basic,
cannot alter any settings so dead easy to use for beginers.Compared to tmpeg it is hard to tell much of a difference,picture maybe not quite as sharp but half the encoding time. I use 2500 cbr in tmpeg.I would say for someone getting the hang of vcd/svcd it is an ideal tool.Trial lasts 60 days.
quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
I have just downloaded trial version of Pinnacle TRex and encoded to svcd.Very basic,
cannot alter any settings so dead easy to use for beginers.Compared to tmpeg it is hard to tell much of a difference,picture maybe not quite as sharp but half the encoding time. I use 2500 cbr in tmpeg.I would say for someone getting the hang of vcd/svcd it is an ideal tool.Trial lasts 60 days.
Followed Rays advice and down loaded TREX which to a beginner like me seemed more user friendly and less daunting than the TMPEG trial that I also downloaded.
I used the SVCD mpeg 11 template and encoded the AV1 file that I had created in Studio 7.
When I tried to load this file to Easy Cd Creator the error came up this file will not work in a VCD player.
To make the file VCd compliant you must use MPEG encoder that supports VCD encoding. I thought thats what I had done.
Also I tried to load the file to Nero (dont know what versio, it replied MPEG 11 file installed instead of MPEG 1.
Am I right in thinking that both Easy Cd and Nero dont support SCVD creation or have i missed something.
I have sucessfully made VCd b4 useing Easy CD Creator withe encoder supplied with Studio 7 or already on my machine (indeo i think)
Any help or advice appreciated.
Julian
------------------
Julian,
VCD is an MPEG-1 format (low datarate, low resolution, low quality, low file size, good compatibility with different systems and players, good for web use)
SVCD is MPEG-2 format (much better quality, higher datarate, less compatible with all systems, for example a friends new panasonic DVD player will not play SVCD's)
What you have been doing is to make an MPEG-2 SVCD and then attempt to burn it as a VCD. Your software has been telling you that it is the wrong format and may not play.
You need to use the VCD template and burn the file as a VCD in NERO or whatever.
I hope this helps.
Andy
Andy,
Thanks for the posting, as you will be aware I am a beginner and I just cant work out why i cant produce a SVCD. Can I do anything with the SVCD file I have created?.
The way that I have read your reply is that I cant!
I dont want to create VCD, I was hoping for an improvement in quality ie SVCD.
Do I have to start the process again from the AV1 file.?
Thanks
Julian
------------------
Nero 5.5.5 will burn SVCDs. It has a setting especially for this.
It will also burn mini DVDs if you put DVD compatible files into an SVCD template - although it will throw up a compatibility warning. Mini DVDs are far less likley to be played on older DVD machines than SVCD.
Dave Bluck
Coming in late on this one is it safe to assume that TMPGEnc is the best MPEG2 encoder for DVD, unless your willing to pay big bucks?
And it appears that the old 12a versions has better quality output than the newer 2.5x versions (although they are quiicker).
Is thhis correct?
I woulld definitely consider T-Rex from Pinnacle. There is a 60 day trila version for download and it's only $17 to buy.
It has no settings but my results with MPEG2 output have been truly amazing.
Can even frameserve from Premiere using videotools
Hi Jez,
quote:Originally posted by jez275:
Coming in late on this one is it safe to assume that TMPGEnc is the best MPEG2 encoder for DVD, unless your willing to pay big bucks?
Take a look at the quality test links earlier in the thread and make up your own mind.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Hi bluesman,
quote:Originally posted by bluesman:
I woulld definitely consider T-Rex from Pinnacle. There is a 60 day trila version for download and it's only $17 to buy.
Where's the information on this encoder on the Pinnacle site? I can't find anything...
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Go back to the third posting on this thread from Hawk and click on trex and you will go straight to downloading it .
Ray Maher
Hi Ray,
quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
Go back to the third posting on this thread from Hawk and click on trex and you will go straight to downloading it .
Ray Maher
Thanks, but I want to know where Pinnacle have information about this program. Bluesman mentions a price of 17 US dollars, but where does it say this? Is this encoder being bundled with any Pinnacle software, or is it a separate product? Is it download only, or can you buy it boxed? The ftp link given puts the TRex.exe download in the "driver" directory(!) - is the program meant to be a driver or plugin to another package?
There must be some information on the Pinnacle site somewhere...
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Julian,
I have been making SVCD's and miniDVD's for the last two months with great succsess using TMPG. The way I do it is as follows:
Edit movie in favourite software and output as a DV avi file. I keep time down to about 15mins per video.
Load TMPG and select avi file. This is the most important bit, load template for the output you require. TMPG has vcd, svcd and DVD PAL and NTSC. These templates provide standard settings to the correct format for vcd and svcd. You can often change settings but this may make the output non-compliant and some players will not play the disk.
After TMPG has finished you will have a file with *.mpg extention. To make your disk you then run NERO or your CD burning software. I use NERO, it has worked every time. In NERO there is an SVCD option which will setup the disk with various header files so that the player will recognise the disk as an svcd. There will be a window lower left into which you drag and drop your *.mpg file made by TMPG. If this file is non-compliant NERO will tell you and ask if you wish to continue with a non-compliant svcd, otherwise it will then burn your svcd. With my Yelo it will auto start with the message SVCD on screen.
Thats basically it.
A miniDVD is a short DVD mpeg-2 file that is either dropped into the SVCD box in NERO and burnt as a non-compliant SVCD (works OK with Yelo upto 4Mbits/s datarate) or just burnt onto the disk and played by the player as a straight file, again on the Yelo I can make DVD file with a datarate of 6.5Mbits/sec. This gives fantastic quality and about 15mins max on a 700Mbyte CD. Again not many DVD players will play this, thats why I bought the Yelo specifically to play miniDVD files on CD.
I am sure you will be able to make and play either a vcd or an SVCD (go for SVCD every time over vcd and if your player will cope a miniDVD every time over an svcd for ultimate quality picture).
Andy
Andy,
Many thanks for the advice and stepped instructions which I have saved, I intend to follow your advice and hope to produce SVCD this weekend. I"ll let you know how I go on.
Kind regards
Julian
------------------
Cheers Andy, just the kind of fools guide I've been looking for.
quote:Originally posted by AndySmith:
Julian,
I have been making SVCD's and miniDVD's for the last two months with great succsess using TMPG. The way I do it is as follows:
Edit movie in favourite software and output as a DV avi file. I keep time down to about 15mins per video.
Load TMPG and select avi file. This is the most important bit, load template for the output you require. TMPG has vcd, svcd and DVD PAL and NTSC. These templates provide standard settings to the correct format for vcd and svcd. You can often change settings but this may make the output non-compliant and some players will not play the disk.
After TMPG has finished you will have a file with *.mpg extention. To make your disk you then run NERO or your CD burning software. I use NERO, it has worked every time. In NERO there is an SVCD option which will setup the disk with various header files so that the player will recognise the disk as an svcd. There will be a window lower left into which you drag and drop your *.mpg file made by TMPG. If this file is non-compliant NERO will tell you and ask if you wish to continue with a non-compliant svcd, otherwise it will then burn your svcd. With my Yelo it will auto start with the message SVCD on screen.
Thats basically it.
A miniDVD is a short DVD mpeg-2 file that is either dropped into the SVCD box in NERO and burnt as a non-compliant SVCD (works OK with Yelo upto 4Mbits/s datarate) or just burnt onto the disk and played by the player as a straight file, again on the Yelo I can make DVD file with a datarate of 6.5Mbits/sec. This gives fantastic quality and about 15mins max on a 700Mbyte CD. Again not many DVD players will play this, thats why I bought the Yelo specifically to play miniDVD files on CD.
I am sure you will be able to make and play either a vcd or an SVCD (go for SVCD every time over vcd and if your player will cope a miniDVD every time over an svcd for ultimate quality picture).
Andy
Hi Andy,
> There must be some information on the
> Pinnacle site somewhere...
>
> Best regards,
> Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd,
Like you, I tried to find info on the Pinnacle site, but only thing I could find was in the 'e-Store' section of the Pinnacle site - http://www.pinnaclesys.de/store/oneOffer.asp?langue_id=2&offer_id=31
It is a standalone application.
First impressions of T-Rex using the 'MPEG-2 PS' option are good quality and fast (but it looks like it is softening the picture), and it always produces 44.1 KHz audio even if source AVI has 48 KHz audio (so problems for DVD encoding).
But for 19 euro it's good start....
Cheers,
Tony
Just to clarify the disk formats in case anyone is getting confused by now...
VCD: MPEG-1, 352 x 288, 44.1 KHz audio, official format
SVCD: MPEG-2, 480 x 576 (VBR upto 2.5Mbit/s), 44.1 KHz audio, official format, uses SVCD specific MPEG program stream format (not the same as DVD!)
XSVCD: Authored as SVCD but with higher bitrates/resolutions, unofficial format
miniDVD: Encoded/authored exactly as for DVD, but burnt onto CD i.e. has DVD video resolution, audio, menu operation etc. Unofficial format, very limited standalone player compatability.
Tony
Andy Dean.
The only place I have seen the price is on the registration site that you go to from the downloaded encoder.
Ray Maher
Hi All
TMPGenc went "mainstream" with a buyable release v2.53 that has I understood MPEG2 encoding fully licensed.
What is the v2.53 like compared to all the various options becoming available?
Trex certainly is economical!
PS I note that Ian of LynxDV fame gives the Pure Motion encoder high praise!!
I wonder if Andy Dean and his team would consider offering it as stand alone product at a reasonable price compared to Trex or TMPEGenc v2.53??
PPS Does anyone know if Ulead will release the newest encoder to users of MSP6.5 as an update!?
[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 02 May 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 02 May 2002).]
Hi Tony, Ray,
quote:Originally posted by owlsroost:
Like you, I tried to find info on the Pinnacle site, but only thing I could find was in the 'e-Store' section of the Pinnacle site
OK, thanks. I searched the Pinnacle forums and there seems to be lots of mentions on the German forums, but none(?) on the English ones. Wierd.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
[This message has been edited by AndyDean (edited 02 May 2002).]
Hi Searcher22,
quote:Originally posted by Searcher22:
I wonder if Andy Dean and his team would consider offering it as stand alone product at a reasonable price compared to Trex or TMPEGenc v2.53??
Our future plans are always somewhat secret squirrel, so I couldn't really comment I'm afraid.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
quote:Originally posted by AndyDean:
Hi Searcher22,Our future plans are always somewhat secret squirrel, so I couldn't really comment I'm afraid.
I, like searcher, would need to purchase it stand alone, in my case to operate from within Premiere (or frame served via Avisynth).
So any info on possibility/pricing would be useful.
Jez
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AndyDean:
Hi Searcher22,
Our future plans are always somewhat secret squirrel, so I couldn't really comment I'm afraid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So can Morocco Mole shed any light?
Following advice I downloaded TREX and did a quick comparison against TMPGEnc with the following results;
I used the 6.5mb (mpeg ps/DVD?) template in TREX and frame served from Premiere using Avisynth. Although the results were "good", displaying them on my TV via a set-top box proved a little difficult.
Importing the TREX mpeg into DVD Workshop wasnt a problem, but burning the dvd caused problems as DVD Workshop seemed to think it necessary to re-convert the file (it did not try to convert the TMPGEnc file). DVD Workshop was set to an equal or higher setting (6/8mb) so it should not have needed to re-convert.
At 8mb, DVD Workshop failed with a "conversion error", at 6mb it performed ok but the results were only ok (possibly due to the reconversion?).
My current view is therefore that TMPGEnc provides the best results for DVD, especially given the costs. I'd like to give MPEG XS a go, but dont believe its available for Premiere.
Jez
Hi Jez,
quote:Originally posted by jez275:
I, like searcher, would need to purchase it stand alone, in my case to operate from within Premiere (or frame served via Avisynth).
Jez
It's your lucky day We've just released MPEG XS for Premiere 6:
www.puremotion.com/mpegxs
You can download a trial from:
www.puremotion.com/downloads
quote:So any info on possibility/pricing would be useful.
Jez
49 UK pounds, available now.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Hi Andy (Dean),
Well done!
At last, a decent MPEG-2 encoder plug-in for Premiere at a sensible price (at least I presume it is - haven't tried it yet...!)
Cheers,
Tony
Ahg Hmmm!!!
Great news for Prem6 users but what about a stand alone version for use with MSP 6.5 (or version 6 or earlier)??
I suppose even a plug in would be OK but persoanlly I like standalone addons
After all with the praise the encoder is getting I hope Pure Motion see fit to offer it in as wider a useable format as possible!
[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 03 May 2002).]
If the mpeg 2 PS setting in Trex is for dvd souldn't the audio be 48KHz not 44.1.
Ray Maher.
Link for T-Rex
www.pinnaclesys.com (Section : Homevideo|Pinnacle e-Store)
Hi Ray,
quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
If the mpeg 2 PS setting in Trex is for dvd souldn't the audio be 48KHz not 44.1.
Ray Maher.
Yes....
....but the current version of T-Rex can't do 48kHz audio.
Tony
quote:Originally posted by AndyDean:
Hi Jez,49 UK pounds, available now.
Best regards,
Great news - I'll download and trial the demo version.
Thanks
Jez
So - Mr Andy Dean - please can we have a standalone version of MPEG XS or a plug in for MSP 6.0 as asked for by Searcher 22.
Why does everything have to gravitate to Prem 6?
Hi,
quote:Originally posted by TV joiner:
So - Mr Andy Dean - please can we have a standalone version of MPEG XS or a plug in for MSP 6.0 as asked for by Searcher 22.
Why does everything have to gravitate to Prem 6?
As I said earlier in the thread, we don't announce anything until release. We haven't ruled anything out with respect to other versions.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
UPDATE
I've been giving the Purmotion MPEG XS encoder a good "going over" over the last couple of days, but still have to say that, for my footage at least, the best encoder by a long way is still Tsunami's (free) TMPGEnc (latest version).
The footage tested is Hi-8 captured at 10 mb/s thru svhs via a DC30+. I use premiere 6.01 and export to the MPEG encoder either directly (as with MPEG XS) or via AVISynth (with TMPGEnc or TREX). The footage itself is DisneyWorld stuff, hand held and therefore not rock solid! I burn to a Pioneer A03 DVD-rw and typically used a 8mb CBR on allencoders, but also tested 8mb vbr (as well as TMPGEnc's 2pass VBR). Footage was checked in the original MPEG2 output on the PC as well as the authored disk on a Sony 36" TV.
Of the three encoders, TREX was by far the worst in quality.
MPEG XS's quality suffered greatly from horizontal "banding", whenever there was some vertical movement in the footage, even if the movement was not great (If anyone has a preset which may alleviate this then please let me know but I've tried a number of differing options with no affect).
TMPGenc produced the best results, with the latest version (2.53?) producing better results than the older 12a which many seem to prefer. Clearly using the 2pass VBR process reduced the file size slightly, but I still felt that the CB8000 had the edge.
Note that TMPGEnc was the only encoder that DVD Workshop did not attempt to re-encode, irrespective of the quality settings in Workshop.
I can produce some screen shots if anyones interested, especially the "banding" on MPEG XS which seriously affected its quality (both "original" MPEG2 output previewed on a monitor as well as the burned DVD)
Jez
Hi Jez,
Even if you don't post the piccies here, can you send them to our tech support address:
www.puremotion.com/contactus
so that we can have a look. We've not seen banding on MPEG XS - is this not just interlacing that you're seeing?
What resolution are you building? Is it PAL or NTSC? Is the DVD movie resolution the same as your source footage?
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
If you want a standalone version of MPEGXS, why not buy EditStudio 3 and the MPEGXS plug-in for ES (£59 + £20 for the download versions).
You've then got a standalone encoder with a free video editor thrown in for only £30 more than the cost of the Prem 6 plug-in....
I think the reasons software developers target Premiere are:
1. I suspect it is the most popular semi-pro/pro editor, so the target market is large.
2. It has a properly supported/documented plug-in interface, so it's possible/easier to write plug-ins for it.
Tony
Hi Jez,
I use the encoder in Vegas Video 3 (which is basically the same Mainconcept core as MPEGXS) to encode MJPEG files captured from old VHS-C tapes (so probably even worse quality than your Hi-8).
I haven't seen the problems you mention (I normally use 6.5Mbit/s VBR, 720 x 576 25fps source and output).
One thing I did find is that Pinnacle T-Rex installs a DirectShow MJPEG playback filter in the system, which I found messed up playback of my MJPEG files (created with a software codec) in MoviePlayer - just a thought in case this might be causing problems.
Tony
Got my Pioneer 104 DVD writer over the weekend so have been experimenting a little with encoding.
Been using TMPG with the auto VBR setting, quality set to 100, min bit rate 2000, max 8000. It gives excellent results for DVD. Very impressed.
Anyone use different settings to this?
......I c&cked up!!!!!!!
Following a tip-off from Andy Dean and a number of discussions with Owlsroost (thanks Tony)we've sorted the problem.
The poor quality output from MPEGXS was due to it needing to RESIZE the video as it'd been incorrectly captured and "TV cropped" to 720x540 by the DC30+. The need to resize the video (to 720x576) by MPEGXS was causing the banding, an issue that TMPGEnc doesn't seem to suffer from. If the missing 36 lines were added (18 top/bottom) then the problem dissapeared and the results from MPEGXS were EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE.
As to which encoder provides the best quality (TMPGEnc 2.53 or MPEGXS)it's a difficult call as they are very similar. Perhaps if Andy Dean would like to email me an upgrade password for MPEGXS I'd be more than happy to carry out a more thorough evaluation 
.
Hope this has helped.
Jez
Just to clarify the resize issue as I understand it (for the benefit of Prem 6 users)...
When the frame size in the export settings is different to the project setting, Prem (by default) uses a fast, poor quality resizing algorithm on the export video. To get better quality apply the 'resize' filter to the clips (or a virtual clip of the timeline). This is much slower but gives much better quality output.
Note the problem isn't specific to the MPEGXS plug-in - as far as I know it's a general Prem problem (the Ligos MPEG plug-in suffers from the same problem, for example).
Tony
Has anyone tested Nero's plugin for encoding MPEG, and how does it compares with the best of the rest (budget range of course)?
[Hi, I have just downloaded TMPGEnc but I would be interested to know how you get around the 30 day limit, what is the hack, if its well known.QUOTE]Originally posted by PhilipL:
Hi
Great links will give them a go.
While TMPEnc is only for 30 days this is a limitation added due to the MPEG encoding licensing rules. I believe the author doesn't agree with this and gets around it by putting a new version on the site once every 30 days which renews the 30 day limit.
Also the "hack" to give you back the full 30 days is well known and very simple.
Regards
Philip
Take a look at www.softdeko.8m.com for a solution.
Andy
Hi
I am puzzled by the call for links to the TMPGenc "hack" as the product as gone commercial is that not a full unlimited version?
And clearly it's free origins were very good but surely the developer deserves their just reward and at $48 is not a fortune
PS I am still using version 12b
[Would you let me now the hack to overide the 30 day limit using TMPGEnc, and do you Know one for Intervideo windvd 4..QUOTE]Originally posted by PhilipL:
Hi
Great links will give them a go.
While TMPEnc is only for 30 days this is a limitation added due to the MPEG encoding licensing rules. I believe the author doesn't agree with this and gets around it by putting a new version on the site once every 30 days which renews the 30 day limit.
Also the "hack" to give you back the full 30 days is well known and very simple.
Regards
Philip
Cheaky question this, but, please, what is this hack to overcome the 30 day limit. It's that well known that I can't find any info on the internet.
Thanks
Andy Scott
quote:Originally posted by PhilipL:
Hi
Great links will give them a go.
While TMPEnc is only for 30 days this is a limitation added due to the MPEG encoding licensing rules. I believe the author doesn't agree with this and gets around it by putting a new version on the site once every 30 days which renews the 30 day limit.
Also the "hack" to give you back the full 30 days is well known and very simple.
Regards
Philip
The workaround is a small program available on free download called "tmpgenc loader". You can get it from http://www.softdeko.8m.com and search for it on this site.
Works a treat and instructions are included with the download.
[This message has been edited by Paul Jordan (edited 03 June 2002).]
I can't really believe that the people who use this site are prepared to use a "hack " to avoid paying the modest registration fee for the use of this program. It is an ace piece of software worth much more than the price and has been updated over the years as free software.
How can we expect future developers to treat us adults if we behave this way!!
I am all for thwarting the "biguns" in the business but really.
Now off high horse but still annoyed.
Chris
Ah but this is a unique situation........the guy who wrote the program wanted it to remain free but the big boys didnt like the fact that the quality of his "freebie" matched that of their $2000 progs and so they made a issue out of the mpeg liscense which only allows him to give it free for 30 days. If you go to his site you will notice that there is a new version posted every month and the author done that to get round the 30 day limit. Now its only a guess but who do you think might have told everyone that by removing or adding HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{63902277-B101-4049-8B46-C24B67E155E5}
(I cannot remember which but its easy to work out) that there would be no need for the constant monthly downloads? Of course should you be in any way sceptical of all this then you will ignore that key won`t you?
Ah, well in that case I stand corrected and apologise for the rant.
Chris
Hi,
I can't believe what I'm hearing here.
quote:Originally posted by jimmy the jock:
Ah but this is a unique situation........
This is frankly tripe, and ChrisG and Searcher are right in their responses. Time for some truth about the MPEG licenses:
What is the license fee?
========================
If you write an MPEG-2 reader or writer, you must pay the MPEGLA (mpegla.com) a license fee. This fee currently stands at 2.50 US dollars for every reader, 2.50 USD for every writer.
Who are the MPEGLA?
===================
The MPEGLA are a body formed by all the patent holders of the technology used in MPEG-2 and each patent holder receives a share of the license amount. The MPEGLA was formed as a single point of contact and billing for people wishing to license MPEG-2 technologies. Without this, licensees would have to contact each patent holder individually and arrange payment terms.
Who has to pay?
===============
Everybody. If you write any software that reads or writes MPEG-2 files then you have to pay. Full stop. No exceptions. If you charge 2000 USD or give your program away for free, you still have to pay 2.50 USD for every copy used.
How does this affect TMPGEnc?
=============================
TMPGEnc writes MPEG-2 files, so the author should also be paying the MPEGLA for the use of the patented technologies. TMPGEnc is being sold under the "Pro-G" name I believe and you will see them listed as a licensee at:
www.mpegla.com/l_licensees.html
Now, whether the author of TMPGEnc decides to give away the program or not isn't important - he still has to pay the license fees. Whether he agrees or disagrees with the license terms isn't relevant either - he's still liable. It has nothing to do with "the big boys" putting pressure on him - it's the law.
I suspect that by producing a 30 day trial version he does not have to pay until the user registers and by releasing a new version every 30 days he thinks he can get around this whole license issue. I'm no lawyer, but I think I'd want to stop skating on that particularly thin-iced pond pretty soon.
How does this affect me?
========================
If you are using TMPGEnc after the trial period has ended, you should pay for it. Here is the link:
www.ifekx.com/products/index.html
You should do this for 2 reasons:
1) You are not permitted to create MPEG-2 files without paying for the license to do so.
2) The author(s) of TMPGEnc have produced a fine encoder and should paid the asking rate for their work. If you don't agree with the rate, don't use the software.
The hack that is being asked for here is simply asking to steal the software. It's no different than asking for a serial number for a program or asking for a hack to disable the trial period in the Premiere demo. I would hope that this forum does not become a trading place for "warez".
Sorry to be so long faced and serious here chaps, but stealing software really stinks.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
And I suppose you`ve never borrowed a book from someone or read someone else`s Newspaper and of course you didnt buy a VCR and record tv programs until they allowed "personal use" ???????????????
Theres always ONE!
I would imagine most people who use TMPGEnc have already paid an embedded licence for MPG2 in something like MSP6 or DVD Workshop, both of which are not used in my case, TMPGEnc is far better IMO.
Adam
Hi Adam,
quote:Originally posted by buckers:
I would imagine most people who use TMPGEnc have already paid an embedded licence for MPG2 in something like MSP6 or DVD Workshop, both of which are not used in my case, TMPGEnc is far better IMO.
Again, this isn't relevant I'm afraid. For every copy of TMPGEnc that is being used, the author(s) should be paying MPEGLA a license fee to use the patented MPEG-2 routines. As I said above, if you write a program that writes MPEG-2 files the you pay MPEGLA 2.50 USD for every copy that's used. The fact that the user may already have another MPEG-2 program isn't relevant.
These comments further rub salt into the wound because the author(s) of TMPGEnc are actually charging for the program now and yet people still seem to think that it's OK to steal it by getting around the 30 days limit.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Andy - I wasn't disagreeing with you, but it seems to me that if a licence is required for the right to make MPG2 (regardless of how I do it, even by writing my own program) then I've already paid it several times already by buying legitimate copies of MSP6, ,VS4, DVD Workshop, etc. MPG patent people already have a few dollars off me for the privilage.
As with all most copyright issues, there is the moral interpretation and then the 'letter of the law' - take the ridiculous patent storm over the GIF standard a while back, and the guy who made an arse of the patent law by patenting the wheel recently (Australia ?).
Copyright law always leads to great discussions
I totally agree with you about buying TMPGEnc, the author deserves credit for his work, regardless of his opinions about the MPG patent group. Even if 12a is better
Adam
Hi Adam,
quote:Originally posted by buckers:
Andy - I wasn't disagreeing with you, but it seems to me that if a licence is required for the right to make MPG2 (regardless of how I do it, even by writing my own program) then I've already paid it several times already by buying legitimate copies of MSP6, ,VS4, DVD Workshop, etc. MPG patent people already have a few dollars off me for the privilage.
The license agreement is for the authors of the software that create the MPEG-2 files, not the final user. I'll say it one more time: if you write a program that writes MPEG-2 files then you pay MPEGLA 2.50 USD for every copy that's used. It's that simple.
I certainly don't want to start a general piracy argument here, but it's very clear what's going on in this thread. People are asking to get around the TMPGEnc trial limitations and this is illegal because the authors of TMPGEnc are selling this as a commercial product. They are doing this (one presumes) to pay the required MPEGLA costs and perhaps make a few bob for all their hard work.
Seeing such an open request in piracy is not something I'd expect in a well behaved and heavily moderated forum as this.
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Whilst agreeing entirely with the views of Andy etc re paying for TMPGEnc, can I just clarify the facts a little as I understand them....
There are currently two versions of TMPGEnc available:
TMPGEnc Plus from http://www.pegasys-inc.com/e_main.html - this costs 48 USD, has more features than the 'standard' version, and the trial period is 14 days.
TMPGEnc from http://www.tmpgenc.net/e_main.html - the 'standard' version, can't be purchased, MPEG-1 functionality is free (unlimited time) for non-commercial use, MPEG-2 functionality is limited to 30 days.
Personally, I think TMPGEnc is worth buying for the MPEG Tools/processing filters on their own even if (like me currently) you don't normally use it for encoding, and because over the last 2 years or so it's done more than most to get the other encoder suppliers to improve the quality and lower the cost of their offerings, so we now have several good encoders to choose from (which is where this topic started )
Tony
Responding to a few posts earlier, I have found that VS6 MPEG encoder did not produce very good results. Anyone in agreement?
Hi Afyuen,
Re VS6 encoder, see http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000875.html for info on enabling the advanced encoder settings dialogue.
What settings are you using?
That said, I think the VS6 implementation of the MainConcept encoder is the earliest/poorest performing of the several implementations around - the Puremotion version is better.
Tony
Dear Tony/ Owl roost you mentioned
First impressions of T-Rex using the 'MPEG-2 PS' option are good quality and fast (but it looks like it is softening the picture), and it always produces 44.1 KHz audio even if source AVI has 48 KHz audio (so problems for DVD encoding).
A query to ask as i d like to make a few DVD-r s.
I use premiere 6.0. I have been adding 44khz 16 bit stereo wav files as back ground music tracks, mixed in with original sounds to my project. These i recorded in cd quality mode using sound recorder.
So far i have only made VHS tapes but would like to make DVDs
I plan to output them via video tools to tmpeng, to create a Mpeg 2 file/dvd
And then use sonic my dvd to make a dvd.
Will i have problems importing as the added audio is t 44khz?. should i go back and record from tape again at 48 kh?
Raj
I think the piracy issue has just about been "done to death" by everyone now (personally, I fall into the "if you use it- pay for it" camp), so I'd like to return to the question of the relative merits of the various software MPEG encoders.
I currently use Adobe Premiere 6 (rip-off price, so I may not continue with it), so my comments mostly relate to the available Premiere plugins:
1) For MPEG-1 the Panasonic encoder (reviewed in Computer Video magazine some time ago) is still very good - although it does tend to soften pictures a little. An export-only plug-in.
2) The full LSX encoder from Ligos gives full control over GOP sequences and also allows VBR or constant bitrate encoding. It is very fast, but only offers single pass encoding. The quality is so-so and the price is around $250! This price stinks, so I doubt whether I will be upgrading to the latest version ($49 for the upgrade - I don't know what the current full price is). An export-only plug-in
3) The Pure Motion (Main Concept) plugin is much more reasonably priced (thanks Andy) and works pretty well. There is not too much picture softening and you have full control over GOP format and fixed or variable bitrate (if you ignore the persistent templates that you are presented with). The encoder is pretty fast - probably due to the fact that it appears to be single pass only. An export-only plug-in.
4) TMPEG Plus is a stand-alone and is extremely useful because it offers tools for dealing with MPEG files (e.g. multiplexing audio and videop without re-encoding)as well as a very good MPEG encoder.
These Premiere plug-ins all allow you to choose non-standard picture sizes (but, vertical and horizontal sizes must be multiples of 16) and are very flexible. All these guys have had my money, but I doubt whether Ligos will be getting any more of it!
The CinemaCraft software-only encoders fall into two groups - Lite and SP. Lite only gives constant bitrate encoding and SP gives variable bitrate (and configurable GOP sizes). Both encoders can only deal with full frame (PAL=720 x 576) or half frame (PAL=352 x 288) picture sizes, so they're not very flexible. Lite is $250 and SP is $2,500! These prices stink to high heaven so, although the encoders are fast and the output quality is good I would give them a VERY, VERY wide berth!!
Media Cleaner 5's MPEG encoder gives no control over bitrate or GOP size. It also allows you to use "illegal" horizontal and vertical picture sizes (not multiples of 16) - so you can spend several hours producing a file which is totally unplayable! I haven't used the MPEG Supercharger (and at $500, I don't think I ever will). Cleaner's price (around £500)is another complete rip-off - stay well clear!!
I use Nero 5.5 and it's own VCD encoder is very good. I also purchased the SVCD plug-in ($16 - I believe it may be from Tsunami) and this also produces perfectly acceptable SVCD (480 x 576) results (if you can find a stand-alone player which will accept your masterpiece).
The only other tool I can comment on is MediaWare's MyFlix XE program. Like Tsunami, it offers lossless cutting, trimming, multiplexing etc. of MPEG files. However, it can only output constant bitrate files and it's dearer than TMPEG Plus.
I hope this is useful to some of you. Bear in mind that these comments are all my own, and based on my testing with these products over a couple of years. I'm sure that some of my comments may be out-of-date!
Peter Callow.
------------------
Hi All,
This discussion thread has helped me no end to get up and running without having to bother you all with the same sort of queries that are regularly posed here.
However, I'm a bit stumped.. I am producing content in Premier 6 and using TRex to encode VCDs and SVCDs and assume MPEG2 PS is DVD?
I am then using Roxio Easy CD Creator to burn my CDs but it will not accept SVCD or MPEG2PS files. Can any one point me in the right direction please? I would like to produce DVDs as none of my clips are longer than about 12 minutes.
Many thanks in advance for any help.
Oscar.
Hi Oscarjenkins
Not wanting speak from ignorance but is Easy CD creator able to "make" SVCDs?
On a related note.
I have had another look through the recent supplement that came with CV magazine. The TMPEGenc is still the most highly praised software encoder and the screenshots seem to show the v2.54.
So I think I might spend my $48 instead of get the WinOnCD MPEG plugin which is based on the Ligos GoMotion software
quote:Originally posted by oscarjenkins:
Hi All,This discussion thread has helped me no end to get up and running without having to bother you all with the same sort of queries that are regularly posed here.
However, I'm a bit stumped.. I am producing content in Premier 6 and using TRex to encode VCDs and SVCDs and assume MPEG2 PS is DVD?
I am then using Roxio Easy CD Creator to burn my CDs but it will not accept SVCD or MPEG2PS files. Can any one point me in the right direction please? I would like to produce DVDs as none of my clips are longer than about 12 minutes.
Many thanks in advance for any help.
Oscar.
Hi Oscar,
VCD is MPEG-1 with a particular picture size (PAL = 352 x 288), data rate etc.
SVCD is MPEG-2 with another fixed picture size (480 x 576) and set of parameters.
MPEG2 PS is an MPEG-2 Program Stream (i.e. the video and the audio streams, multiplexed together in a single file).
DVD, as a specification, refers to a fixed picture size (PAL = 720 x 576) and uses MPEG-2 encoding. It also uses specific packet sizes (for multiplexing the audio and video together) but, from there on, the specification is a little more flexible.
You can see from this, therefore, that VCD and SVCD DO NOT conform to the DVD specifications.
I do not use either TRex or Easy CD Creator, but I believe that this latter program is quite picky about the parameters used to encode the original VCD or SVCD videos. This is not only the picture size and total data rate, but also the audio data rate and (for VCD) sampling frequency (VCD MUST be 44,100Hz). It is sometimes the case that your encoder's interpretation of "VCD" or "SVCD" is not the same as your burning software's.
Finally, I hope I have made it clear that MPEG-2 is a much wider standard than DVD and, therefore, includes many parameters that could make your production unplayable on a stand-alone DVD player. Most MPEG-2 encoders do have "DVD" templates to use though.
I hope this helps,
Best Regards,
Peter Callow.
Stop Press
TMPGEnc 2.55 available today 11/6/02
Dear Andy DEan
How do i get the MPEGxs to work in Premiere LE came with my sony vaio.
i have tried putting in manually to premiere le plugin folder but can find it in premiere
Thanks
EMail me if you want Rajkanwar@bigfoot.com
Hi Rajuk,
quote:Originally posted by Rajuk:
Dear Andy DEan
How do i get the MPEGxs to work in Premiere LE came with my sony vaio.
I'm not familiar with Premiere LE. It might be that the light version of Premiere doesn't support extra plugins. I've found this post on Usenet:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22premiere+le%22+plugins&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&selm=B0178C27966818E5FF%40ala-ca12-18.ix.netcom.com&rnum=6
which suggests that Premiere LE doesn't support third-party plugins. Can anyone else comment on this?
Best regards,
------------------
Andy Dean, Pure Motion Ltd, www.puremotion.com
Many thanks to Peter and to Searcher22,
No I'm not able to create SVCDs using Easy CD Creator only VCDs.
So let me get this straight for not just me as a newbie but for all those folks like me that may be reading this thread but are too shy to pose really basic questions.
1. Video is captured or clips are imported into Premier (or other video editing software)
2. Clip is exported to another file format which is compatible with the encoding software used (TRex, TMPEGenc etc). This programme converts the clip into a format that is compatible with the programme that burns the clip onto media.
3. Another programme is used to place the clip resulting from the process above onto a CD or DVD.
Is this is more or less the process?
If so I guess my remaining question is what is the best software for step 3?
My DV500 Plus came with Pinnacle Impressions. Is this any use?
Is the upgrade to DV500 DV worthwhile?
Thanks ever so much for your help and I hope to be able to answer someone else’s questions some time.
Oscar.
quote:Originally posted by oscarjenkins:
Many thanks to Peter and to Searcher22,No I'm not able to create SVCDs using Easy CD Creator only VCDs.
So let me get this straight for not just me as a newbie but for all those folks like me that may be reading this thread but are too shy to pose really basic questions.
1. Video is captured or clips are imported into Premier (or other video editing software)
2. Clip is exported to another file format which is compatible with the encoding software used (TRex, TMPEGenc etc). This programme converts the clip into a format that is compatible with the programme that burns the clip onto media.
3. Another programme is used to place the clip resulting from the process above onto a CD or DVD.
Is this is more or less the process?
If so I guess my remaining question is what is the best software for step 3?
My DV500 Plus came with Pinnacle Impressions. Is this any use?
Is the upgrade to DV500 DV worthwhile?
Thanks ever so much for your help and I hope to be able to answer someone else’s questions some time.
Oscar.
Hi Oscar,
Step 1 is totally correct. If you're using a DV500Plus, your file will be an AVI using Pinnacle's own DV CODEC.
Step 2 depends on whether you are using a stand-alone encoder or a Premiere plug-in. Stand alone's (TRex and TMPEG) usually accept AVI files, and so can often accept your capture "as-is". The only reasons for using Premiere for step 2 would be to trim or de-interlace your clips, change the colour balance, add transitions or effects etc. I don't know about TRex, but clipping, de-interlacing and colour corrections can also be achieved in TMPEG directly. In principle, step 2 is used to make VCD or SVCD compliant MPEG files, as you say.
Step 3 gets a bit tricky. In principle, your burning software takes your VCD or SVCD files and then burns your disc, adding an appropriate file structure, menus etc.
In practice (I can only speak for Nero here), the burning software also includes it's own VCD encoder (so, no step 2) and you can also purchase an MPEG-2 (SVCD only) encoder for $16 (I think - but again, no step 2). In these scenarios, you just give the burning software your trimmed and corrected AVI files and tell the software to get on with the job - it then produces the required MPEG files with the appropriate picture sizes, pixel ratios etc and uses them to make the disc. With Nero, if you give the program unacceptable VCD or SVCD files it will still accept them, but it will transcode them (re-encoding = loss of quality), to produce acceptable files, before burning the disc.
From your comments, I can only imagine that Easy CD Creator cannot transcode and/or re-size files, in order to create material suitable for burning.
Clearly, for me, the software for step 3 is Ahead's Nero. I use the current version (5.5.8.2) and I have also purchased the MP3Pro and the MPEG-2 plug-ins for it. I know quite a few people who have changed to Nero, from EasyCD Creator, but, equally, I know quite a few more who love it to bits! I don't want to start a "burning software war" here - this is just my preference.
Like you, I have a DV500Plus (although I don't use it these days). This card has a hardware MPEG encoder, which you can use from Premiere to make full size DVD compliant MPEG files. It cannot multiplex the output, however, so you will get separate audio and video files (primarily aimed at feeding into Impression)
The DV500Plus bundle includes Minerva (now Pinnacle) Impression (DVD burning software). This is "dongle protected" software - you MUST install it on the PC with the DV500Plus installed. Apart from this headache, Impression (my version, at least) can only burn discs using MPEG files with FIXED BITRATE. you can make lovely DVDs, with menus and everything (a triumph of candyfloss over actual product quality)!! It's hugely expensive software and I'm sure the upgrade prices will be equally ridiculous so, for me, the cons far outweigh the pros and I don't now use it AT ALL.
Finally, I don't know the specifics of the DV500 DVD, although I believe the ability to IMPORT MPEG-2 files into Premiere (for transcoding) has been added. However, transcoding involves a loss of quality, whereas TMPEG and MyFlixXE have the ability to carry out LOSSLESS operations on MPEG-2 files (see my earlier post). Just my opinion here but, stick with what you've got.
I hope I haven't missed anything out, and that it's all clear now.
Best Regards,
Peter Callow.
------------------
PJCallow@hotmail.com
Is there a way to make TRex produce PAL equivalent MPEG files for importing into Sonic DVD?
It keeps saying that the output files are cDVD NTSC.
I dont get this problem with Tmpgenc.
also due to the 2gb limit on capturing DV avi files if want to say make a
i hour dvd (12gb )dvd can i combine all the files into tmpgenc?
Hi all,
Thanks very much to Peter for the advice. I think I've got it at last. I'm excited at the prospect of being able to burn DVD... Great.
Oscar.
[This message has been edited by oscarjenkins (edited 12 June 2002).]
I was wondering of anyone has some suggestions for TMPEG settings. I have a AVI RAW that I want to convert to DVD. I purchased TMPEG, but have been struggling getting best combination of settings that produce smooth video on some motions scenes. Several scenes appear blurry or jittery on motion. I now make Non-Interlaced and that helped with De-interlace to Double. Some scenes still burry like a film with too slow of shutter speed, streaky. I am currenlty trying VBR with 2000kbs low, 6500 average and 7800max. Deinterlace set to double, DCT set to 10 bits, Motion search to HIGHest quality.
Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by jez275:
UPDATE
I've been giving the Purmotion MPEG XS encoder a good "going over" over the last couple of days, but still have to say that, for my footage at least, the best encoder by a long way is still Tsunami's (free) TMPGEnc (latest version).
The footage tested is Hi-8 captured at 10 mb/s thru svhs via a DC30+. I use premiere 6.01 and export to the MPEG encoder either directly (as with MPEG XS) or via AVISynth (with TMPGEnc or TREX). The footage itself is DisneyWorld stuff, hand held and therefore not rock solid! I burn to a Pioneer A03 DVD-rw and typically used a 8mb CBR on allencoders, but also tested 8mb vbr (as well as TMPGEnc's 2pass VBR). Footage was checked in the original MPEG2 output on the PC as well as the authored disk on a Sony 36" TV.
Of the three encoders, TREX was by far the worst in quality.
MPEG XS's quality suffered greatly from horizontal "banding", whenever there was some vertical movement in the footage, even if the movement was not great (If anyone has a preset which may alleviate this then please let me know but I've tried a number of differing options with no affect).
TMPGenc produced the best results, with the latest version (2.53?) producing better results than the older 12a which many seem to prefer. Clearly using the 2pass VBR process reduced the file size slightly, but I still felt that the CB8000 had the edge.
Note that TMPGEnc was the only encoder that DVD Workshop did not attempt to re-encode, irrespective of the quality settings in Workshop.
I can produce some screen shots if anyones interested, especially the "banding" on MPEG XS which seriously affected its quality (both "original" MPEG2 output previewed on a monitor as well as the burned DVD)
Jez