Broadcast Video Expo, 17-19 February 2009

The old Video Forum was a link between the general public (who liked the idea of editng their home videos and needed a starting point) and the professional world. Ten years on, the general public is happy with a Youtube level of expertise and a considerable gap has opened with the professional world.

Since generating material for Youtube editing needs very little capital expenditure, Keiron has obviously decided to move this exhibition to a level where money is spent.

Ray L

That hopefully means likes of:
i) Adobe offer something different to the same old basic tutorials where the only thing that is new is the video clip of the sports car.
ii) Sony staff their stand with technical staff and not office staff who can't answer basic questions.

I doubt it means the 'Audio Forum' (forgotten the proper name) they once had alongside is present.
That would mean they each get probably 50% increase in footfall of interested buyers.
Beneficial to organiser, respective forums and us lot.
Maybe next year???

Until last year there was a separate 'Broadcast' show in May/June. Keiron took it over and combined it with the Video Forum. Now he is pushing the 'Broadcast' side of this new show.

'Nature abhors a vacuum', so maybe some bright spark will start an 'entry level' exhibition including, as Dave R says, an audio section.

And yes, Dave, agreed re: Adobe and Sony. Even better would be an Adobe stand that annouced with a fanfare that they had realised the folly of Premiere Pro and were bringing out Premiere 7, the true follow-up to 6.5 with all of 6.5's features* plus HD and surround sound. Perhaps if we all wish hard enough . . . . . . . .

* except the 3 hour timeline limitation and that crazy feature where placing a clip on the timeline makes the timeline view jump to the end of the clip.

Ray L

I think you may be missing the point about the show. It's called broadcast VIDEO Expo - it's a 50:50 billing!

As lots of broadcasters are using desktop products and handheld camcorders in exactly the same was as video makers, it makes little sense to hold multiple exhibitions (particularly if you ask the exhibitors). Since the move to the single show, very few of our old Video Forum exhibitors have left us. Calumet, Tiffen, DVC, Prestons, ARRI, Photon Beard, Holdan, Canon, Vinten, Ianiro, Matrox, Planet PC... the list goes on: all still with us, all delighted to see broadcasters as well as video pro's. There are a few others that have pulled out but most of them are no longer active in the UK or have moved into another bit of the market.

I spend a lot of my time making sure that the show is balanced - so there are loads of Premiere, Edius, Vegas and FCP demo's, and lighting / camera training sessions. If there's anything else you would like to see, let me know.

In terms of audio, that is building up well at the show - Sennheiser, Canford, Preco, Sadie, Total Audio Solutions, Aspen Media, Audio Technica, Audio Ltd, Calrec, HHB, Edirol and more...

If nature does abhor a vacuum then I'm sure we'll see the resurrection of three camcorder titles and a video editing magazine very soon!

Names can be deceptive!
I didn't see many Merchant Bankers running through the forest in the 'Lombard Rally'. ;)

Just opening my post... who's this from...talk of the devil.... Kieron!

Thank-you Kieron.

Got my invite in the post today aswell, never been to this one.

"Oh, that deceit should dwell in such a gorgeous palace!"
Romeo and Juliet

they're generally worth going to for anybody in the south east.

Dunno if you're from the "frozen north" as costs would rocket.

I've been going to the events since the early 80's and have used it to decide what to buy rather than as a source for bargains. That said I'll eye up the z5 prices at the show.

the food's always a rip off.

and last year someone dinked my car in the car park

Newcastle to Earls Court (West Brompton) by train, advance ticket (2 singles). Set out at 07:40; Leave Earls Court at 18.49 Cost: £46.90 on The Trainline.

There will be a few of us coming up from Devon...... on the train of course.

This year it's slap bang in the middle of half term. Excellent!!!!

That means the college can't use the excuse that 2 members of staff can't be allowed to go at once.

For cheap, decent food, go to the little greasy spoon just outside the main gate, opposite the station.

Keiron

If you check this thread again, here is a bit of feedback about your feedback system. In the past I have received a request after the show to fill in a questionaire.

Do you remember at school or college where the exam paper would have the advice 'Read ALL the questions before starting your answers? Well, please could your questionaire be designed such that all the questions can be read before one starts to answer? Too many internet questionaires are designed so that one has to fill in the first screen before one can proceed to the next. I dislike this so much that I won't answer this type of questionaire. I like to survey all the questions before starting so that I can make a proper judgement .

Ray Liffen

I've sent your request on to Zoe in Marketing. But please bear in mind that these questionnaires are quite impersonal - I'd really much rather receive a frank assessment by email if you have a spare moment after the show...

I replied to the main events email this morning requesting that the system be changed so that small companies can register everyone at the same time and not have fill in half the questions again.

A good weed of the database would be good to stop multiple letters being sent out would save a lot of money and trees as well.

Don't forget to register or you'll have to pay £15 on the door, we forgot last year and didn't go.

IBC is 100 times better and there is an interesting city as well for the evenings but the Earls Court one is worth attending.

Just booked Tues 17th off work. Now to see if I can get another £8 day return from Bicester on The Train Line. It's a few years since I went to the old Video Forum, and I guess there won't be a Computer Video/DV Doctor stand this year, so where should one go to bump into other DVDr regulars surreptitiously tucking into the home-made sandwiches they've smuggled past the catering franchise police?!

I've mislaid/lost/thrown away the flier for it. But I'll try to be there one day, not sure which yet. I tend to wander round bumping into people now that there's no DVDoctor presence (how could there be, what would it be trying to sell?). But there will be known faces all over the place, Holdan and DVC for a start. If Richard's not on the Holdan stand it'll be for family reasons :D

Hi Steamage,
I also smuggle in butties(typically egg) to eat in a quiet corner.
If the badges aren't laminated, we could just write 'DV Doctor' on them to spot each other.

they're normally a paper part tat you print yourself, or are handed and sliped inside a plastic pouch?

OK then, how about we all write DVDoctor and our login name on the badge, so that we at least get a chance of recognising each other?

I still have my pass from last year.
Assuming same this year...it has a light plastic coating that can be written on with biro, but a felt style pen would probably stand out better.

Like that idea. But just in case jackets and scalves obscure our badges maybe we should have a back up ID mark. How about wrapping gaffa tape around one of our shoes.

It could all get a bit masonic if we introduce a funny hand shake....... now that would be good fun.

Let's just stick to the badge idea.

Been there done that. One ski holiday the sole came away from my rarely used 'holiday shoes' while walking on ice! Didn't have any other shoes, so bought some gaffer tape and ended up with a silver grey foot. I thought i'd be picked on for this oddity when returning through customs, but no questions were asked.

So how many DVDoctorites are coming? Would you like me to TRY to co-ordinate a DVDoctor gathering in a cordoned-off area?

For our own protection, or that of the rest of the delegates? :) Hope to be there on Tuesday.

Any idea if JVC will be showing off their newly announced SDHC cameras there?

That's very considerate of you Kieron.
The space could be as simple as a small board with 'post-it' notes available, so we can say things like 'Dave R Smith' here at 11.30, coming back in 30 mins.'

I plan to come unless un-movable commitment arises.

I'll be there certainly for the first two days. Some sessions to attend, some kit to buy....

Hi Dave,

I can't do what you suggest here - the post-it notes would last 20 minutes at most. What I had in mind was a set meeting time - say you guys could all meet up at 12.00 on Tuesday at one of the seating areas and I will make sure it is all co-ordinated at our end...

That sounds like a great idea, count me in!

I'm guessing some will be travelling different days to tie in with preferred seminars/commitments etc, so getting a consensus on time and place would be a struggle.

So yes, if we say 12.00 on the Tuesday at a designated area, then anyone keen on saying hello without using a keyboard can endeavor to make that day.

I'm sure it won't be printed on the floor plan, so if you mention here the adjacent stand we'll be sure to find it.

I'll be all three days on the Sony stand, the first day will be best

I'll be there all three days

Ray L

I;'ll be there sometime, not sure which day(s) yet. I'll go along with any arrangement that's made, and be grateful for it.

I'll be there Tuesday. Midday sounds like a good time.

I really need a good 10+ or so to say yes (I think we're up-to 6 at the moment) to make this work!

It's possible folks aren't reading this thread, cos they know dates etc already, so I'll pop a new thread as a pointer.

Hi

I'll be there Wednesday and Thursday. Would be great to meet up.

Aim to be there Tuesday 17th.

Aim to be there thursday .

Likely to be there Wednesday. Would like to meet up with anyone else.

I'm going to be there on Thursday. Would be good to meet up and put faces to names.

With regard to a meeting-point for all we DV Doctors (what a thought!), it is often the case that at the last minute an exhibitor will choose not to attend. I'm sure we've all been to exhibitions where (usually on the periphery) there are unused spaces looking a little forlorn.

It could be that such spaces will become free at the last minute (such as a repeat of the snowy weather) . In that case such a stand space could become an informal meeting point. As I'll be there from early on the first day I'll be happy to donate one of those 'DV Doctor' sweatshirts to act as a marker. These are the sweatshirts that a number of us had when we did duty on the DV Doctor stand a few years ago. Leave a business card or a post-it with your name and a time when you'll be looking in on the stand.

Being the civilised sort of chaps that we are, it should all operate without being a bother to Keiron at all.

Keiron, if you're reading this, thanks for the ticket, which arrived today.

Ray L

I have been dragooned in to going with a Musician and theatrical production director on Tuesday. Not got much tank to spend, so this will be a social for me. See you guys there :)

I don't know if we achieved critical mass for an official seating area at 12.00 today.
I was in an interesting seminar by Larry Jordan on Colour correction (sorry I'll correct that to Color correction) until 12.15.
I looked at different seating areas, but no evidence of DVDoctor.:(

I checked out the VIP area, still no DVDoctor and it looked like Angelina Jolie and Arnold Schwartzanegger were also in seminars, so I carried on around the areas for unimportant people.

A tip for next year for convenient parking:
Hire a Lotus Exige - you can drive them right into the Forum and Park where you like.;)

Dave,

I saw Larry's session as well. It was the best explanation I have seen on how to get flesh tones right. I shall try to do the same in Vegas and CS4.

Elsewhere, I thought the show was a bit light on attendees. Saw Z Cheema's (impromptu) session on Vegas. Quite informal, but learnt a few useful things. It ran right upto the start time for the next workshop, so Tom Hardwick was kept waiting in the corridor.

Steve

I'll be there tomorrow.

My take on the show; as always the second user and direct retailers doing great business. A great place to get an insight into broadcast and outside broadcast setups. Tape less acquisition being the overall theme. Fascinated by the Land rover & Cinematography setups.
Greeted a few forum members and Z demonstrated Vegas ( which I was surprised how easy the GUI is ) V8 is on my needs list now. Come away with an IDX 3 on cam light & Lots of ideas with a shift in thinking too.

I'll be there tomorrow. Sony tour first thing (11:30) then wandering about.

Well, I walked around all day yesterday in catwalk mode, wearing (with pride) my DV Doctor emblazoned shirt. No-one picked me up on it. It doesn't seem so long ago we had a stand there, with Bob C buying us lunch on condition we sold his mag subscriptions.

tom.

Last year's Sony Seminar was hosted by Guy Thatcher of hireacamera fame, and boy was it good. You can tell the man's talking sense because he's so damn enthusiastic, and there are not enough minutes in his day to tell you everything.

So I went along to yesterday's seminar and was glad that my ringing phone gave me the excuse to scarper. Not Guy this time, but a mountaineer who couldn't get his laptop to output audio (among other things). Still, standing waiting in the corridor I got into a fascinating chat with a lens designer and we were discussing aspherical surfaces formed by making doublets from plastic and glass.

But the floor is buzzin' and heavin'. Recession? What recession? Prices are on the up if anything. Lots of 3D TV, lots of LED lighting, lots of tapeless workflows, lots of eating places. Room to move, bargains to be had, people to meet. I was given a USB stick, LED ballpoint pen, DVCAM tape, lots of sweeties and entered competitions galore.

tom.

usb stick? applying for a job at sky, are you? ;)

found the 3D TV a bit wonky. Gave me eye strain, and the presenter didn't know why.

found myself pleasantly not interested in much, i.e. wasn't salivating at gear as I have in the past. Know what I want but can't afford it right now, so tough cookie for me.
Got out of there much sooner than I expected.

not sure I'll go next year. anyway, my 2c.

Well spotted. I'd hoped it was a gob-stopper but it turned out to be 512 mB of inedible flash memory. Oh well, you can't win every time.

Well worth going.

If asked to pick one new single thing which caught my eye, it would have to be the new solid state JVC cameras, and if anyone's going tomorrow I'd recommend at least a quick look at the JVC stand.

The 100 (the small one) is maybe even more interesting than the big one, and was much smaller than I was expecting. It can also have the top audio bits taken off, which could be extremely useful for covert filming or for use in very small places. Upon hearing pixel-shift I'd been expecting 960x540 chips, as the small Panasonics, but apparently they are 1280x720.

Combined with the 35Mbs codec, it has the potential of the ideal "B" camera, especially when used with an EX. Price is reckoned to be about £2,500 on the street when it ships.

Infocus.
Did you get a good look at the GY-HM100, or manage to check out any footage, low light performance etc. I plan on looking into this model for the same reasons as you mention. I had planned to go to the show tommorow, Thursday. Unfortunately my son had a front tyre blow out on our landrover and ended up in the ditch, nobody hurt thank goodness, but it means tommorow will be spent recovering the vehicle and sorting out insurance etc

I don't think it's really possible to get a serious measure of quality, low light etc at a show like that - there are just too many variables. The value is more in terms of first impressions, how does it feel, etc - and whether it's worth having a more in depth look. Also being able to ask questions.

All I'll say is I liked what I saw, and reckon it's probably the best you'll get for the price. I'm impressed with what I've seen of the codec from other cameras' and the rest of the spec looks good. Low light must be the query, I agree, but for a B camera may be less of an issue - unless you often need both cameras in the gloom...... :)

Incidentally, I'm hearing that the 700 does full overcrank to 60fps to an SD card, which proves it's the adaptor with an EX that is the bottleneck. It proves that SD cards are capable of sustained video writes up to about 80Mbs at least, and that raises all sorts of interesting questions. :)

I'm going back thursday to have a look at the GY-HM100 (....I didn't see it until too late on tuesday and couldn't get my hands on it....). I believe they have no footage (at the exhibition or on a website) and the camera that is there is a kind of pre-production "one off" so may not be final spec. quality. It's certainly very compact.....

dave

I met Ray in passing and quite a lot of others. Had a long session in Panasonic's inner-inner office with a 301, it looks like we're set for a test soon. BUT, the model they have is serial is number #4 so if I find anything odd there'll be a delay on reporting until a production model turns up. Good first impression though.

The show has less of the family feel this year, more like a mini IBC (or a micro NAB), but definitely worth the visit, even though it took 3.5 hours to get home (deaths at Norwood) and nthe trains simply stopped. I ended up trying to walk home from East Croydon and had to call my wife out after an hour walking..

Thanks for that. I will look forward to checking it out, on its release.

That's a very good point - it's like trying to assess hi-fi loudspeakers at a football match. I was looking at LED lights but it's impossible to check out the even-ness of spread or the range, colour temp or brightness under such show conditions. But all the stands I asked were happy for me to pay, take and test, and would refund if I wasn't happy.

tom.

It is indeed, but the price of £2500 puts it in spitting distance of Panasonic's 151 which looks to be much more bang for the buck. But of course the JVC has the ability to look like a diddy-cam while behaving like the EX1's kid brother.

Talking of LED Lights, I was surprised and disappointed to see so many people hawking this LED-Ring Light for £80 (including Prestons - shame on them).

This item is available on eBay here £7 delivered and it is the same item.

For those who weren't at the show, here's the item at a delicious price. :)

Interesting accessory Martin, but just how large is the centre hole... Big enough for a broadcast lens or more suited to 'baby' cameras?

Hiya. 37mm diameter hole. Unit is 19mm deep, 133mm outside diameter.

It's not a real "ring-light" - it cannot be mounted ROUND a lens - in fact it has no proper mounting facilities at all, it just happens to be a push-fit on many foam windshields on many camera-mounted mics, so these guys exploited that fact - see their video...

Worth a punt at £7, but not much more.

At the show the LED lamp was often shoved onto a typical mic's foam windshield, where it would sit quite happily. If you have a Softie, forget that option.

It did put the 'ringlight look' of LED in peoples' corneas and spectacles though. Silly price, but at Chrome's price, well worth having as the ring does soften the shadows.

Sorry - Martin's price.

Thank-you Mooblie.
I've never been a fan of on-camera lights but saw these at BVF stacked on rack - as many as Hot Cross Buns in Tesco, implying they were a hot seller.
They didn't have a demo version, noted they ran, conveniently, on AA batteries, but was suspicous as to how much light 2/3?( AA batteries can put out, though you can get great torches, so I'll keep an open mind. My mind is more open at £7.

Tom, when comparing luminaires, always use a decent test card. Put a Macbeth chart in front of a camera and have a look at the colour patches, they should all be reasonably accurately reproduced. There are very few that do it well, and none that are as good as tungsten.

I bought one of those cheepo ring lights for £1.50 on ebay.

it's bright enough for a closeup interview, but the problem is the colour balance. My one is so blue, it can't even be colour matched!

I believe (if you believe their claims) the £80 (used to be £150!) versions have had all the LEDs unsoldered, and new colour correct ones soldered in place.

Battery life is ok, but there's a lot of LEDs in there, so batteries wont last forever.

I bought one for £7 but now use it for its intended purpose as a camping light.
It just doesnt cut it as a video light.

Hmmm... but as I see it, surely if it's a half decent mic which uses the side of the body of it's chassis to capture audio as well as the end (if you get my drift), then sticking what is effectively a 'massive sound deflector' around the foam shield would reduce the audio coming into the microphone tremendously therefore having a major negative effect? :eek:

I thought it might be ok as illumination for that dark corner cupboard under the kitchen worktop. The on/off switch on the front might be operated by the door opening and closing.

Much better idea - dangle it on the end of a fishing line at night - possibly near Gary Camping after a few drinks, just need a ghettoblaster with the Close Encounter soundtrack.:D

I have to agree with the trend emerging here: it's rubbish. At £7 it's rubbish. At £80 it verges on a scam. :D That was my point.

I had another look today, and think it's a bit more complicated than that. On specs alone the HM100 wins on resolution (1280x720 chips v 960x540, both with H,V pixel shift), and I suspect the 35Mbs XDCAM codec is better than AVC-HD - it should certainly be easier to edit, not need transcoding. A lot will depend on low light performance, but I'd want to get both cameras together in dimly lit conditions to test that.

Prices are expected to be very comparable, so the other big difference is down to size. On one hand, the HM100 may be seen as a bit too small, too fiddly, but on the other hand that may be exactly what's needed in a second "B" camera, especially with the way the top section is removable to make it smaller still. They both use SD memory.

Either way, if you're spending about £2,500 on a camera, its worth checking out.

I can't agree. It comes with 3 AAs, is pretty bright, has an on/off switch, you can wear it as a halo and - delivered to your door - it costs the same as 1½ BVE curly bacon sandwiches.

It looks to me as if the very laws of nature will decide the 151's better in low light. Each of the 151's chips are 78% bigger and on top of that all the individual pixels are bigger too - 1280x720 chips v 960x540.

It's a race the JVC can't possibly win. And all the while you have those incredibly short focal lengths giving you oodles of dof. Ug.

tom.

I saw some little lights in B&Q this week they were rubberised and around 3inches round, they could be fantastic for the spaceship that will decend onto my tent in the field at the back of the pub!

Regarding the arrangements for the seminars, did anyone else find it odd that the blurb at the top of the 'whats on' menus outside each theatre (except the £20 one) started 'First come first served' and then mentioned tickets and then that the lectures were free. Back at the Registration area, a hand-written notice said 'no tickets needed' followed by a list of theatres.
Then at the start of the seminars, those who had tickets were let in first.

Ray L

I did not know I was on the list for a seminar, till someone came up to me and said is that you doing the seminar on HD on Vegas, not that I know i said. I had no paperwork or confirmation from the shows organisers I was doing one.

As for the light, the pound shop had them in with no hole last summer (camping light)

I never did get my hands on the little JVC camera.... kept going back to the stand but it was always being demonstrated. I went back mid afternoon and the guys on the stand announced the camera had gone! (....collected to be sent to Germany it seems....and even the people on the stand didn't know it was going 'til it went....) Oh well, another time I suppose....

dave

Anyone - were there any good show specials?

(In the market for another HPX171 but have got a decent price anyway.)

Hello

As ever the video show which is now named Broadcast Video Expo was a real eye opener and a positive event to attend.

Unlike previous years the sales brigade were not tripping over themselves trying to sell me everything. There was a nice peaceful approach by many sales representatives who seemed more interested in promoting the fact that their company was not in financial trouble than the cut throat attempts of hard selling I’ve been subjected to in years past. This now being the 5th year of attendance I was not surprised to see that some of the regular exhibitors actually recognised me and were very polite and welcoming.

In respect of the vision mixer upgrade within the TV studio the event has allowed us to broaden our horizon slightly. What was a one horse race has now become a four horse race. We now have the option of a JVC, Panasonic, FOR-A or Datavideo unit. With technology prices falling again the vision mixers that were once out of our price range seem to now be within reach. A little more negotiation and I think we could bag ourselves a bargain.

I was also surprised to discover that Sony have backtracked and will now be developing an affordable HD solution for businesses with the DXC / BVP range of cameras. More news on that in April.

Meeting with the rep from RTS Telex was a pleasure. He’s the nice chap that wants to sell us a new talkback system for the studio. I had a demo of the system which is very impressive and will compliment our studio should we purchase it.

There was no real technology push this year either. In previous years manufacturers have imposed the will of solid state, IPTV and HD upon visitors but this year there was none of that.

Possibly due to the fact that we have now accepted that it’s here and we’re going to have to go with it whether we like it or not.

I am proud to say that exhibiting were MW Video who sold us the TV Studio gallery console furniture. I made a point of visiting Brian Speck and saying a big thank you on behalf of Exeter College.

That’s all.

Tilski

Got a fantastic post show price for the HPX171 and 2 x 32GB cards from hprestons.