Canopus: no re-sale value?

have you tried talking to canopus uk ?
i've found them very helpful.

i don't have the right card for your drivers , but sure someone else here might be persuaded to download the ones you want/need.

any card i've bought second hand has always been a twin for one i have elsewhere (i.e. work) therefore able to get any files via that registration for all boards owned.

Reply from email sent to Canopus UK to ask if it was possible to register and so be able to access driver updates:

'Unfortunatly it is not possible for you to register a second Hand product as yours. Within the License Agreement it states that the registration is non transferrable.'

The above from Jennifer Pitts of Tech Support, Canopus UK.

No register = no access to driver updates = inbuilt redundancy factor = no resale value.

I have sent another email to them today but going by what I have already discovered this now seems to be Canopus policy. I hope to be proved wrong but I fear it's a case of buyer beware.

robo

As an non Cabopus user but one who has looked at the posibility of them previously this is quite shocking. Dirty tricks like these really do put me off purchasing a product from a company like this. If this is the case then Canopus hang you head in shame.

I've asked Canopus to look at this thread and email me with a formal response.

I was less than happy when the system changed to how it is at present, and made this clear to Canopus, but robo's situation perfectly exemplifies why the system is daft, and patently counter-productive.

Bob C

Thanks for that information will steer well clear from them. You reap what you sow...

The Canopus website Driver Downloads section has been a hot topic on the Canopus users forums since Canopus decided to put the barriers up.

Personally, I think they have shot themselves in the foot. Yes, proprietory software-only products needs protection, but hardware drivers need hardware to be any use. If someone has bought Canopus hardware and they like it then they will buy other Canopus products. If they are rejected and they buy elsewhere who can blame them?

The Canopus manager who is dealing with Driver Downloads is

Darrell J VanDerWolf
Marketing Manager, Canopus Global Marketing
Email: darrell@canopus-aust.com

Ray Liffen

Please note that 'pinnacle' also now lock you out from software/driver upgrades, without username password etc.
It seems to be the way things are going.
Nvidia on the other hand , don't care , the drivers are there for anyone to download.

I can fully understand that they don't want to give people access to software , but , drivers are no use if you don't have the card.

Canopus have always been rather unpleasant when it comes to obtaining, let alone supporting, their products. There was their rufusal to supply dual PAL/NTSC products in the States, allowing them to rip people off with their silly european prices.

I needed a software upgrade for the Raptor and, in order to avoid the EU ripoff, had to have a stateside friend purchase it for me and ship it to Europe.

It may be time that their stance on drivers was given the oxygen of publicity that it deserves.

Many thanks for all the words in support of this, I hope for everyone's sake this starts some sort of sensible dialogue with Canopus (and the others)
Just out of curiosity I had a look around last night to discover that Matrox seem to be doing the same but strangely enough not with graphic card drivers! Soundblaster cards have no log-in system and non of the motherboard sites I went to have adopted the practice.

robo

Whilst it is true that the official line on second-hand products is that the warranty is not transferable, Canopus in the UK (and Europe) is sympathetic to all its customers.

All of our tech support staff has been instructed to discuss the issues with the customer and where necessary send out the relevant files on CD. We do not have the authority here to add second hand owners to the list but will help out where required.

As for the new driver download system, I can see this as being viewed as a backward step by some people but in fact it has been done in an attempt to improve our support. The reason customers log on and register products is so that they can view only relevant updates for their specific products and not get confused by all the other clutter. In addition there will be email updates to users each time a new driver or update is released so you need never have out of date software or drivers.

We do listen to what our customers say and your views are important to us. After all if we blindly carried on ignoring people then no one would buy our products and we would soon be out of business. At the same time it is difficult to please all of the people all of the time and so sometimes people do get disappointed.

We hope that this is a rare occurrence.
Colin Morris
Canopus Europe

Well, you may be happy with your policy, but I can safely say I'd never buy a Canopus product while it's in place. I can't imagine you're _gaining_ any customers as a result of this policy, but you've certainly lost a few potential customers as a result of this thread alone.

Robo,

EXACTLY the same happened to me last week, when I installed a second-hand Raptor RT. However, I was lucky enough to have the latest drivers supplied to me by the seller on CD. Although we're not legally transfering ownership, I'd be happy to help you out and do you a copy?

Mark

I used to have a Raptor card but would now never buy Canopus again if the product has no second hand value at all.

I suspect that most people would follow this purchasing decision in time - sadly by then Canopus would have lost many customers.

It's not too hard to get customers, it's very very hard to get them to come back once they have left AND they tend to spread bad news.

Des

quote:Originally posted by colinrmorris:
As for the new driver download system, I can see this as being viewed as a backward step by some people but in fact it has been done in an attempt to improve our support. The reason customers log on and register products is so that they can view only relevant updates for their specific products and not get confused by all the other clutter. In addition there will be email updates to users each time a new driver or update is released so you need never have out of date software or drivers.
Colin Morris
Canopus Europe

This is a thoroughly pathetic attempt to justify the unjustifiable. People who have purchased hardware, whether new or used, should not be denied access to the necessary drivers.

Effectively Canopus are saying that hardware ownership is not transferable. If this remains their attitude, I too will never buy another Canopus product.

Remember what happened to Gerald Ratner! & more recently, the head honcho @ Barclays Bank.

I think the attitude Canopus has will cost them very dear.

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions

Colin Morris. As a storm 2 user I am very unhappy with The Canpous edict of up drawbridge and I have to question the ethics and even the morals behind it. Your answer to Robo is pure Bull. By discuss problems I take that to mean pay a fee (transfer of registration ?).If that is the case be up front about it. Accepted practices of re selling will catch quite a few out and will ultimately lead to greater unregistered/ Unliscenced use of your software.Try and police that !.
Storm 2 by the way , Great- I love it and don`t intend to part with it for a long time.

Not meaning to simply jump on the angry band-wagon, but this knowledge will certainly help me make a purchase decision as well.

I'm in the market for a new card (I'm currently using a Pinnacle DC1000 -- now, if you want to talk about BAD customer service policies, check out the swine at Pinnacle)

Anyway, It's come down to the classic decision between the Matrox RT.X100 and the Storm2 card.

I have a line on a used Storm system -- but obviously if I can't upgrade the drivers without resorting to grovelling to the folks at Canopus, the Matrox may appear to be the way to go (although I'll have to purchase a new one, as I can't find any great deals on used RT.X100 systems).

And as for the justification from the Canopus dude about not wanting to confuse users -- give me a break. We're not idiots. We can figure out what product we own without needing to sign in.

Interesting comments from Canopus, if they don't want to confuse users why is their software installation procedure for storm2 more complex than launching the space shuttle? Perhaps providing a good working driver (premiere Pro namely) rather than making it difficult for people to download would be a better idea. Also what happens when your warranty runs out, do you not get access to the drivers anymore????

I must admit though once working the Storm2 is brilliant, I really love it but customer support really does need a lot of work.

John.

[This message has been edited by steelej (edited 14 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by steelej (edited 14 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by steelej (edited 21 January 2004).]

I was close to adding a Canopus MPEG1&2 encoding product to my armoury but not after reading this lot. I am fed up with bright sparks in companies coming up with stupid ideas and policies that completely disregard the fact that our good money keeps them in a job. B***ocks to them.

I was this close to buying a new Raptor and having read this thread, Canopus won't get one red cent from my purse anymore. I did go and check the Australian Canopus site and sure enough, I now have to register my EZDV prodcut to get any drivers.

I had some respect for Canopus. I was even looking at buying Edius. But nah, I think I'll just rethink my whole approach to a new editing system. I am one who will not be buying "our products".

The Canopus dude better rethink his company's approach to customer service. I'm glad I read this thread. Canopus - just another greedy company trying to screw over its customers that pay for the profits.

There - that feels better!

Colin Morris seems to have missed telling one of his staff how to deal with enquiries about driver updates as I was given a very decisive 'no' to my request, I certainly didn't receive any offer of 'unofficial' help from Canopus and as yet haven't had a reply to my second email.

I'm afraid, that like others who have replied to this thread, I find the idea that anyone who would want to download and install a driver to a computer system but isn't capable of navigating through a manufacturers website is nothing short of condescending rubbish.
Users may very well want to access driver availability before they purchase an item to verify if it will work in their particular system or indeed to see if the manufacturer has a support policy at all! There are numerous reasons for keeping a driver base open to common use.
Even Microsoft, the greatest defenders of manufactures rights in the world, make drivers freely available to all - registered or not.

I just wish that Canopus would come clean and admit it has got it wrong instead of putting out the stuff and nonsense as posted on this thread or worse still completely ignoring the pleas from users as seems to have been the case in the US.

There is only one possible reason, as far as I can see, for this approach by Canopus and that is to ensure the limited life of its products and so increase new sales - a ridiculous position to adopt for the acknowledged leaders in the field.

Perhaps one of the UK official selling agents would like to contribute to this thread and put our minds at ease prior to Videoforum 2004?

I had made the purchase of the secondhand Raptor RT unit as a 'make do' until I could justify the cost of a Storm system, that workload has been reached much sooner than expected but I cannot justify the future loss - would you buy a second hand car knowing you couldn't get spares for it?

My thanks to all who have offered the relevant drivers, I find their 'honesty' a lot more in keeping with reality than that of Canopus.

robo

The point Canopus is missing is the give-and-take between the consumer and producer:

for example, when I bought my new Storm2 card I had to download four - yes, four!- sets of upgrades just to get the thing to work. Obviously the production schedule had over-ridden the software writing, and I as a consumer accepted the fact that Canopus effectively said 'Well, the hardwares there, and by the time you get it you'll be able to download the working drivers.'

On my part, I expect to be able to log on to Canopus and download whatever driver I need for the hardware in my system - anonymously and without fuss. If they wish to offer e-mail updates, fine, offer them and and I may choose to use the service.

This is SO contrary to the spirit of the Net: another example: I bought a second hand 35mm stills camera recently, no manual.
Even though the camera is about 10 years old, low and behold the manufactuers have posted the manual on the web for all to download. THAT'S service. THAT makes me want to go back.

Seriously, what's the issue here? Do Canopus REALLY believe there's a 14 year old warez junkie in California ringing up his mates saying 'Guess what! I just got my hands on the latest Win 2000 Raptor driver!!!! Cool!'

So, if Canopus wants to be tough on registering hardware, then I expect hardware that works out-of-the-box, and lets be honest, Storm2 didn't.

Rb

PS I wonder if Mr Morris expects the same service from his suppliers: when he changes his operating system and finds his modem no longer works, when his Motherboard can no longer take the latest hard-drive, when he just can't for the life of him find the CD that came with the graphics card, when that pesky disk-writer needs the firmware flashed: do you sir then just expect to log on to the Web and download the drivers without fuss?

[This message has been edited by RichardB (edited 15 January 2004).]

Oh dear!
I bought a storm 2 (upgrade) card from a seller on this forum about ten months ago. Prior to that I bought an original Canopus Raptor, again from the original purchaser. This bit you won't believe. Both of 'em are as yet unused!!
For my work I still keep using my trusty ADS Pyro card and an AV Master in another machine.
when I eventually get around to using this Canopus kit I hope some helpful soul from "our" forum will be forthcoming with any drivers I need? I certainly do not intend grovelling to Canopus for "spares" that should be freely available to a "legitimate" owner.

I would also like the contributor from Canopus to justify his statements.
If Canopus are prepared "to help?" through the back door then why is the front door locked? What are you trying to gain other than making equipment redundant?
If I bought (eg) a second user Ford car, lost the coded key, proved I was now the legitimate owner but Ford told me "sorry your not the original purchaser, can't release the key codes to you, go buy another car", I have a feeling this would be illegal in some respect or other. So I'm wondering how Canopus stand legally? Any Lawyers out there?

Regards to all and dismayed by another bunch of neverending techno W*****s, why are there so many "one cells" in IT management jobs?

Ken W

CanopusDV Wrote the following in the Canopus Forums:
See Clause 2(e) on the Canopus products legal envelope "you may permanently transfer all of your rights under the licence agreement, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this licence agreement"

Regards

--------------------
Darrell J VanDerWolf
Marketing Manager, Canopus Global Marketing
Email: darrell@canopus-aust.com
Web: www.canopus.com

[This message has been edited by Tek_Video (edited 15 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Tek_Video (edited 15 January 2004).]

Found my old account info...

I am Tek_Video.

In a desperate atttempt at damage limitation, Canopus are now sending personal emails to earlier contributors to this thread. Mine said:

>Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening,

I am writing as I have noticed the thread that was active on the DVDoctor forum, and it has disturbed me to see all of you having such issues with the transfer of ownership.

I would like to clear up any misinformation that may be floating about at the moment.

Canopus has a standard software license agreement which has a clause 2(e) which deals with the 'transfer of ownership'. This deals with all software sold by Canopus offices around the world, including drivers.
This clause states that "You may permanently transfer all of your right under this License Agreement, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this License Agreement".

On top of this, the driver download site (although it may seem unfair to have to register products to get downloads) will allow you to register your card. Please email me if you have any problems with the downloads site, I will help you in whatever way I can in order to get you the drivers you need. It may just be that I have to answer in Australian time. GMT +10

So, in essence, I apologise (on behalf of Canopus) for the misunderstanding that took place.

Please, if you have any further question, please just reply to me.

Regards,

Mark Lampard
Technical Support Manager - Canopus Australia<

On the Canopus forum they are now talking about it all being a mistake by the unfortunate Jennifer Pitts but the real mistake was in redesigning their Driver Downloads area and putting up stupid barriers. Unfortunately, pride seems to have entered into this. They apologise for the misunderstanding, but not for their original mistake. I just hope that "We can't be wrong, however much it costs us" doesn't cost them their commercial existance, as Canopus have made some good products.

Ray Liffen

I have been wondering how long it would take for the ridiculous situation regarding software to be realised.

The problem is that you do not buy software, you only buy a licence to use it. I know of no other product where this applies and, lets face it, software is no different from any other object you buy.

I also doubt whether the licencing agreements are 'legal' under English contract law. When I was doing 'A' level law (many years ago, when 'A' levels meant somthing)one of the basic rules was that you could not impose conditions on the other party without their explicit agreement in writing. Now unless the law has changed, clicking a box on a software package does not constitute agreement in writing.

I became an accountant instead of a lawyer, but my experience is still relevant. When computers first started becoming used in small businesses, the Revenue refused to allow expenditure on software as a tax expense on the grounds that you were not 'buying' a product. It took a specific change in the law for this to be allowed.

Strange though the Revenue may be at times, they recognised the situation and took advantage of it.

And what of Canopus? I think that what they are doing may be 'legal' but are they commiting commercial suicide?

I am always very doubtful of having to give your details 'for better service'. AS sure as night follows day this leads to even more spam being received.

David

Some weeks ago I received several information mailshots from Canopus 'as a registered user of the following product'....

Although I do have several products registered with Canopus not one of these came in my name - all (obviously) sent to my address but with a myriad of different people as the addressee. I also have had many abortive attempts to get into the Canopus 'registered user' site - despite being a registered user on several products. Clearly something is going wrong.

As an exclusively Canopus user for some 5 years and a very vocal advocate of their products for most of that time, I wonder whether Canopus is now going down the route of simply being another software company who regard customer service as a nuisance and the practice of paying customers beta testing their products as a necessity

I presume that Canopus are going to be at Videoforum2004.
The answer, to really get up the nose, is for everyone to bring up this subject and pester them.
In my experience ,if you want something done, you have to pester anyone involved!
If someone on the stand says "yes - you can transfer a licence and then download the drivers" then get a name - get their bosses name etc etc.
When they start to get e-mails flooding in about this ridiculous situation then maybe a re-think will be in order.

I didn't go back to Pinnacle after they refused driver updates for the DV200 to work with XP.
I won't touch Canopus until drivers are freely available to all.

------------------
Spready
2000+ Athlon XP, MSI KT3V Motherboard, 728Mb DDR Ram, 10gb Boot & 80Gb video drives, Sony DRU500 DVD/RW.
Win XP Pro, Premiere 6.5, Scenalyzer Live, OHCI Firewire, DVD Workshop, Sony TRV80 Camera

[This message has been edited by Spready (edited 15 January 2004).]

I think what they did with the software pages was right for the average user.
the number of questions that are posted saying 'i can't work out whether i should download the xxx fix for edius/premiere and my storm2 card ' and the tech support guys have to reply with
'you don't have a xxx card in your machine , the drivers are only for the xxx card '
so they moved all relevent files to an area that you could only access if you had registered that software/hardware.

for those of us that can read , it's now a pain , BUT , we are in the minority or thats what it looks like to me , when i see the number of people that can't think for themselves/ rtfhf.

personally , canopus would have to really do something stupid , before i would decide to move away from them.

Me thinks Canopus and its proponents have missed the point. The fact is that if I buy a used Raptor (or whatever) from someone, I still must fart-arse around proving to Canopus that the licenses have been transferred and evrything is legit. On the Canopus Forum site, CanopusDV stated this -

"Just set up a driver access account and register the product.. if your saying its because its already registered then contact your local Canopus office with proof you have bought it from person "x" (a letter / invoice etc) and we can update the registration.."

Why should I spend time getting letters, faxes and invoices just so Canopus can transfer registration?

At the very least, it's a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. I thought Canopus in UK had a policy not to allow transfer of licenses???

It's been mentioned here before, the "software" or drivers will not sans hardware.

In any case, I'm interested to see the outcome of this fiasco.

[This message has been edited by plettner (edited 15 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by plettner:

Why should I spend time getting letters, faxes and invoices just so Canopus can transfer registration?

You have to exchange paperwork for most other waranteed equipment , if they allow transfer of warranty , so why shouldn't they ask for proof ?

Or why doesn't the person selling the kit give you their access info so that you could then alter the password etc ?

who says you don't have a piece of equipment 'stolen' from someone , checking you have transfer of ownership proves it isn't stolen.

all my stuff is registered under one name/login , but , all of it would go as a package.

I could understand if they said they don't do transfers , but they will , you just have to follow the rules.

Gary, that's true - you should always get some sort of receipt for 2nd hand goods, but must I really alert Canopus to the fact I am now the new owner? If I buy a car, in no way am I obligated to inform the manufacturer that I am now the new owner. In any case, a three year warranty from Ford (for example) is transferrable to the new owner. I do not need to inform Ford of the new ownership. I may still get warranty work carried out.

But the other thing is, Canopus (UK) have told Robo that it is not possible to transfer ownership of second hand products. This was followed by the fact that Colin R Morris confirmed this (also from Canopus). - "Whilst it is true that the official line on second-hand products is that the warranty is not transferable...".

Canopus Australia have then said "you may permanently transfer all of your rights under the licence agreement". All of "my rights" infers warranty also.

The cynical amongst us would say Canopus UK spellt out the correct policy but having seen the backlash, Canopus Australia have attempted to diffuse the situaution by "clearing things up" and spinning the new line.

All in all, I believe Canopus make darn good products, and yes I do own a few, but I will definatetly wait for the outcome of this.

the following is the reply to my second email to Canopus UK in which I asked for details of just how I could download the relevant drivers given that I was not the original owner - this may well be of interest to Plettner (above).
Being the cynical so-and-so that I am I have to admit to having a very large picture of Sooty in mind at this moment!

"Hi Brian,
I am emailing regarding the registration of second hand products.
There has been some confusion regarding what happens with this as far as i was aware what i sent to you in an email was correct.

I am awaiting confirmation but i believe what i sent you was incorrect.
As soon as i have correct details i will let you know what you need to do.

Regards

Jenny Pitts
Technical Support Team
Canopus UK
Tel: +44 (0) 1189 210 150
support@canopus-uk.com www.canopus-uk.com

I award the Donald Rumsfeld Politispeak medal to Jenny Pitts and the entire Canopus Corporation for whom I'm sure she speaks.

robo

[This message has been edited by robo (edited 16 January 2004).]

Interesting dialog. One fact. You must have a Canopus card to make use of a Canopus download driver. Without that card the driver is useless. For a friend, (not on the internet), I encountered the problem with Canopus. I myself thought a Canopus card would be my next buy. This has now changed in preference of Matrox.

i disagree with this whole canopus thing myself but les, Matrox do exactly the same

I have scanned in the License Agreement for Canopus Software Products, which is the white envelope which all of our driver/software CDs come in.

DD_UK - Please note the agreement is accepted when you open the envelope, as it says on the tab (located at the bottom of the scan, upside down) that seals the envelope.

I have made the scan available at the following web site:
http://www.corsairsolutions.com.au/canopus/license.jpg

Regards,

Mark Lampard
Canopus Australia

quote:Originally posted by plettner:
Gary, that's true - you should always get some sort of receipt for 2nd hand goods, but must I really alert Canopus to the fact I am now the new owner? If I buy a car, in no way am I obligated to inform the manufacturer that I am now the new owner. In any case, a three year warranty from Ford (for example) is transferrable to the new owner. I do not need to inform Ford of the new ownership. I may still get warranty work carried out.

But the other thing is, Canopus (UK) have told Robo that it is not possible to transfer ownership of second hand products. This was followed by the fact that Colin R Morris confirmed this (also from Canopus). - "Whilst it is true that the official line on second-hand products is that the warranty is not transferable...".

Canopus Australia have then said "you may permanently transfer all of your rights under the licence agreement". All of "my rights" infers warranty also.

The cynical amongst us would say Canopus UK spellt out the correct policy but having seen the backlash, Canopus Australia have attempted to diffuse the situaution by "clearing things up" and spinning the new line.

All in all, I believe Canopus make darn good products, and yes I do own a few, but I will definatetly wait for the outcome of this.

The reason you need to register a product to be able to download it's driver is simple. Canopus built their hardware to be truly "scalable". By doing so, they have allowed a simple driver update to turn a DV Storm 1 into a DV Storm*2*. If they allowed anyone to jump on their download site and get what they want, then one could buy an old used Storm1 and upgrade to a Storm2 for free. How would that be fair to the folks who paid for the upgrade?
It wouldn't.

-TekVideo

------------------
http://www.tekvideo.net


TekVideo Edius Tutorials

[This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 16 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Mike D:
How would that be fair to the folks who paid for the upgrade?
It wouldn't.

-TekVideo

and who is not being fair to the folks who paid for the upgrade?

No mike the software to enable a storm 1 to become a storm 2 is NOT available on the website or at least it never used to be.
whoever you are you would not let a peice of software like that to be downloaded by registered or non registed users surely?

Exactly! The Storm 2 *drivers* will turn a Storm 1 into a Storm 2. Therefore it would be unfair for the Storm 2 owners if Canopus allowed Storm 1 users to get to the drivers for the Storm 2. So, they make you register your product and then limit you to only downloading drivers *for your registered product*.
For most users it's been working a treat. There have been a few snags, but Darrel has been extremely helpful in resolving the issues.

------------------
TekVideo Edius Tutorials
http://www.tekvideo.net

quote:and who is not being fair to the folks who paid for the upgrade?

The people who want full access to the drivers page so they can download the Storm 2 drivers when they only paid for a Storm 1.

------------------
TekVideo Edius Tutorials
http://www.tekvideo.net

>Exactly! The Storm 2 *drivers* will turn a Storm 1 into a Storm 2. <

Hang on, hang on! lets take a look at that statement. I've got access to both the DV Storm / Storm SE (ie Storm 1) and the Storm 2 section of Canopus' Driver Downloads.

The latest hardware driver for for Storm 1 is called v2 and is dvsdrv210201.zip. The latest Canopus DV driver for Storm 1 is cdvdrv201.zip.

The latest hardware driver for for Storm 2 is dvsdrv210201.zip. The latest Canopus DV driver for Storm 2 is cdvdrv201.zip.

Yes, the hardware drivers are THE SAME FILES.

The rest of the Storm 2 download area is patches and plug-ins - useless unless you have a Storm 2 installation.

So how do you get a Storm 2 installation? Well, you use the two 'green disks' which you get when you buy Storm 2 from Canopus. (Disks may vary on Storm 2 Pro etc).

In other words, the contents of the Storm 2 download area are of no use to the Storm 1 owner because the Storm 1 owner doesn't have the Storm 2 disks with all the goodies that give added value to Storm 2! The Driver Downloads WON'T help you to make a Storm 2 from a Storm 1.

Once again I make the point that Canopus are engaging in pointless secrecy that is only damaging their reputation in the eyes of the enthusiasts who value their hardware and don't want to see Canopus taking this dangerously self-destructive path.

Ray Liffen

[This message has been edited by RayL (edited 16 January 2004).]

I have had an email from Canopus Australia, looks like they want to be my "local" contact. The whole world is going mad. My personal M&S card advisor is in India! What is next?

The Canopus strap line and logo will be changing shortly to: No Limits Video Technology (just a few) inc.

Mike D

That's what serial numbers are all about - controlling such things as upgrades without payment.

Other manufacturers don't have any problem allowing driver updates to be available for anyone to download.

Nothing I've read above convinces me that Canopus have any good reason apart from collecting marketing information to regulate access to software updates - unless, of course, their serial number system is flawed.

The drivers may have the same names, but they are NOT the same. One os for the DV Storm 1 and one is for Storm 2.

As for serial numbers.. Um.. That's what they are doing. You need to register with your serial number to be able to download the product. Pretty simple really.

------------------
TekVideo Edius Tutorials
http://www.tekvideo.net

>The drivers may have the same names, but they are NOT the same. One os for the DV Storm 1 and one is for Storm 2.<

Mike, are you REALLY, REALLY, sure? Same file name, same file size, same date of issue. If you had dvsdrv210201.zip, 320.7Mb issued on December 1st 2003 sitting on a disk in front of you, how would you tell whether it was the DV Storm 1 version or the DV Storm 2 version?

Canopus have made some wierd decisions of late, but putting out a vitally important file in two versions, both of which are to all external appearances completely identical is surely going too far.

Come on, they're the same file, aren't they?

And if they're not, how do you tell? (And you're not allowed to load the file 'cause that might be breaking the licence agreement)

Ray Liffen

>unless, of course, their serial number system is flawed.<

Their serial number system is flawed. When the latest version of the Driver Downloads area appeared I suddenly found that various items which I had registered, and which I had previously had access to updates, were missing. Having contacted Darrell VanDerVelt they were reinstated but without the correct serial numbers so I guess they have a special code for items where they have lost the original registration.

I would advise ALL owners of registered Canopus kit to check VERY carefully that EVERY item is still on the list. Another aspect of the flawed Driver Downloads area is that it gives ther impression that you can only get updates during the period covered by the warrenty. This is not so. I just hope they make this clear on the site as soon as possible.

Ray Liffen

[This message has been edited by RayL (edited 17 January 2004).]

I am reminded of the Ukrainian Pole Vaulter, Sergei Bubka, who broke the world record 35 (or so) times. The cynics suggested that by employing 'scaleable' technology in this fashion, he was simply maximising the take.

Robo wants drivers for Raptor RT. That is stuff all to do with the Storm 1 or 2 drivers
Why the restrictions. Canopus do have a case to answer with his problem.

quote:Originally posted by JOHN . A.V.:
Robo wants drivers for Raptor RT. That is stuff all to do with the Storm 1 or 2 drivers
Why the restrictions. Canopus do have a case to answer with his problem.

i can only answer on the case of a storm/ storm2
there may also be the same problem with raptor variations too, but , since i don't own one , i can't tell for sure.

They are working on the download section. It was and in many cases still is messed up for some users, but they are fixing it. Anything would be better than it was. Before, when you went to the download section you saw everything even if it wasn't the product you owned and it got very confusing for many folks who weren't sure what to download.
They are trying to make it easier for everyone even if it does have some growing pains.

------------------
TekVideo Edius Tutorials
http://www.tekvideo.net

>They are working on the download section.<

Not according to Mark Lampard, Technical Support Manager, Australia.

In his most recent email to me he said (referring the the Driver Downloads section)

"I can only say that what is done, is done, and I (and we) believe that it will provide for better service, once this first period is overcome."

>it got very confusing for many folks<

Then the correct way to overcome that is to add some proper explanations, not to lock the whole lot up behind a high wall. Maybe "folks" would appreciate being treated like adults rather than being told condescendingly "Oh, you won't understand this so we won't tell you". What is it about software providers that they are all seem aflicted with McQuistans Syndrome?

Ray Liffen

[This message has been edited by RayL (edited 18 January 2004).]

People power - Its great. I have only just caught up on this topic, but everyone should be proud at the pressure they will be putting companies (not just canopus) under. I just hope it filters down to the very people that make up these stupid rules in the first place.

Ed

Software Producers.

What other product do you buy that when you open the packet you have agreed to abide by rules that cover the fact that it may not work properly? Bleeding edge technology they call it.

Bruce

Excatly one of the implied points I was trying to make way back in this thread.

How can it be legal (let alone moral) to be forced to agree to terms and conditions by merely opening a package.

Canopus are not alone in trying to frighten people by saying things are 'illegal'. For example it not illegal to buy an OEM operating system without hardware. It is the software house trying to frighten both its distributors and their customers into some really dubious trading practices.

As far as I am aware the suitability of software to do a particular job has never been tested in the courts in the UK under the Sale of Goods Act. This may arise because of 3 situations.

1. All software is perfect.

2. It would cost a lot of money to take one of the major sotware houses to court.

3. If you create enough fuss and bother and threaten to take them to court, you suddenly get your money back.

Being a cynic, I know which one I think applies.

David

[This message has been edited by DD_UK (edited 20 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by DD_UK:
Bruce

How can it be legal (let alone moral) to be forced to agree to terms and conditions by merely opening a package.

Morality is not a word that appears in the vocabulary of major software companies. They provide flawed products, often not fit for purpose, and their ambition is to extort as much money as possible from punters whom they attempt to frighten into submission.

The monoplies in the West use cheap labour, in Asia, to build disk drives etc. but then want to sell software products, in these same countries, for western prices. Not surprisingly they don't have a great deal of success, measured in terms of actual sales. In one SE Asian country MS have have been forced to reduce the price of Windows/Office from $US600 to $US37. Needless to say this is causing them problems in other countries

Hello all

Sorry there has been a delay in clarifying the situation, but here goes....

First, by way of explaining the new registration system, you may be a little disappointed to learn that it wasn't part of some Machiavellian corporate plan to piss off punters (it may well have had that effect, as evidenced here, but there was no intent :). Rather it was an attempt to streamline the support process by making it easier for customers to see updates for just the products that they own, and also so that we can notify users of updates for their products. And yes, some would be paid-for upgrades - frankly we would be stupid if we ignored the opportunity to maximise revenue in this way.

But no, we shouldn't spam people and we should always give people the right to withdraw their details from the mailing list, which is a legal requirement anyway.

But whatever, there is always room for improvement and we shall try to take on board your comments.

As for the transfer of ownership issues - and there is an element of inertia rather than malevolence here (because that is the way it's always been done, it's never really been questioned) - but when it comes down to it a lot of the suggestions on this board make perfect sense and we would be foolish to disagree. There is a meeting in Japan next week where these issues will be raised, and I'm fairly sure that we shall be able to implement something that addresses both software and hardware transfer of ownership in a satisfactory manner.

Failing that, you can always revert to the plan of besieging us at Video Forum :)

'hope this helps - I will update you in a couple of weeks.

Best regards

Steve Wise
Canopus Europe

[This message has been edited by Steve Wise (edited 21 January 2004).]

It is satisfying to know that at least one manufacturer (a) reads this board and (b) takes note of what is written.

But what of the others in their ivory towers?

David

Steve,

Good to hear from Canopus UK. Was beginning to think my local neighbourhood Canopus contact was in Australia. I am now saving every single receipt for anything just to get in training for any future Canopus purchase.

Further to my previous mail.

Canopus hardware warranty is to be modified to enable customers to transfer it should they sell the product on to another individual. We are still looking into the legal phrasing of this, as there will obviously be caveats in the sense that the product should be in working order etc, but users will in effect be able to sell on the unused portion of the warranty period, provided that they register it in the first place.

The warranty transfer will only apply to core product, not cables etc - otherwise it would be unworkable. We are looking into whether we could do this using some kind of transferral document (rather like car registration), and will inform customers as a when we have a solution.

'hope this helps. If anyone has any queries we'll do our best to answer them at Video Forum next week.

Steve Wise
Canopus Europe