Computer Video Editing finally changes its name to...Video Editing

Good!!!!!!!!

Peter

Nice to see the change away from Computer Video Editing but the content of the mag is not really reflected in the new title ''Video Editing''.

Editing is only part of the content of the mag, there's camera, lighting, shooting, sound and so on, much of the front end when editing is the back end.

Perhaps the next name change could be more embracing of the excellent job you do?

How about "Video World"?

And I won`t even ask for a fee!

Barry, remember what happened to DV World! 5 issues then down the shute. Superstitious, ME!

Harry

Fee Barry!
...with that choice you'd have to pay a penalty!

twice

8 issues for first release.
1 issue for second release.

i have a copy of all of them.

in my mind it died for the following reasons.

1. a future publication ..... all gloss , very little content.
2. many ( most ) articles were based on American reviews ( screen captures with 29.997 frames gave that away )
3. article titles that were 'factually incorrect'

one great article about 'dv-capable digicams ' had my favourite line ' 340x240 or 160x120 at 10fps ' ...... hmmmm dv quality.

and

'640 x 480 at 30fps' ..... hmmmm not even ntsc dv
quality

The difference being the quality of the mag & articles therin (suck, grovel etc) well, I need the dosh :cool:

Yeah, but at £6 for a copy I put it back on the shelf.

Why is it that nearly every magazine these days has to to have a ruddy DVD on the front and bump up the price. It would be nice to have the option of getting just the magazine for half that.

Malcolm,

All will be revealed if you read my posting of 21 August, 2004 21:37 here:
www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000648

:-(

Bob C

"8 issues for first release. 1 issue for second release".

Hi Gary

(Also got them in the attic) but now I've given away my age.

Harry

sorry , it's just that i still have all of them here at work ( along with all the CVE and an american dv mag ), the students enjoy them , especially when they blindly use the info and get their 20 multiple choice questions wrong.

We had one student make a report on dv editing with interchangeable 30 fps and 25 fps quotes , depending upon where he had 'borrowed' the info.

It was fun watching him explain where he had 'borrowed' the answers from , because he was 100% sure they were all from the net and all about PAL video standards.

Bob,

Just skimpped through the thread you directed me to and from what I can gather the first DVD had a lot of issues in applications failing to function correctly, hopefully something that is not repeated with the current DVD ??

Let me quantify my original comments. I've allways been a casual purchaser of magazines inc CVM, and being un-employed at the moment I simply can't justify spending £6 on a magazine. The point I was trying to get over is that this inclusion of a DVD or CD Cover disk to sell a magazine is now pricing these magazines out of the reach of some people, and as consumers we are not given the choice of receiving the magazine on its own for £3.99 or with DVD for £5.99. Whilst the additional cost of £2 for the DVD does reflect fair value for money, I have loads of cover DVDs and CDs from computer magazines that have got stuff on I've never used or wanted as it was the content of the magazine that interested me, not the fact it had the latest demo's or beta version of software.

I used to get Computer Video Magazine, PC - Pro and a couple of comics for the kids and still have change from a tenner... now that won't even get you two magazines !!

With respect Malcolm, I would imagine printing two versions of the magazine, one with the DVD and editorial content within the pages explaining what's in the DVD and another without, would be uneconomic for the publisher. It would also be confusing to the public who may pick up the wrong copy assuming the DVD was inside the pages of the magazine, not realising there were two "versions" of the magazine. It is a subjective issue, as what may be unnecessary content (both in the mag and on disk) to you, could be a god send to someone else.
I can understand your point regarding the economics, (I'm not that flushed myself at the moment!) but for Bob to publish a magazine that appeals to everybodys pocket is unreasonable when considering that our hobby/livelihood is not one that embodies the cheapest of fixed costs: PC, graphics card, DVD writer, ink for the printer, blank media etc. So an extra £2.00 is not that excessive in the scale of things.

Please don't take offence, this is just the way I view the magazine. And as you have stated, at the end of the day, if you don't subscribe to the magazine, you can decide which issue you will purchase and which you will decide to leave on the shelf.

Rick

Rick

No offence taken, and I agree with you comments on the practicallity of having two versions, and as I stated £2 for a DVD does represent good value for money. The point I was trying to make was that it seems that Video Editing magazine is now jumping on the bandwagon of so many other magazines by adding a DVD to its cover and bumping you the price to £6.00 in a bid to increase its circulation. Whilst there is nothing really wrong with that and Bob has his liveleyhood to think of, I still feel that for the non professional, casual buyer that simply edits home movies for a hobby and has a general interest, the changes may result in lower "impulse" sales due to the cover price. It would of been interesting to see if the revamped format, change of title and increased page count would of sold more without the DVD cover disk or price increase.

I'm just wondering how long it will be before the cover price of VEM increases to cover the "increasing" production costs of the DVD which seem to be the excuse other magazines use once they go down this route

Again, I hope Bob doesn't take offence at my comments, but this is a public forum and living in a democracy we are all entitled to our opinions.

Who knows maybe Father Christmas will be good enough to give me a years subscription of VEM for Christmas, and then I'll have nothing to moan about ;)

It's hardly a bandwagon that Bob's jumped onto. There has been a steady stream of requests for a cover cd/dvd for about 2 years now, here on the board. He resisted for a long time, quoting the cost of production as being prohibitive. Finally he gave in. Your commenst about cost are certainly valid, but don't seem to represent the majority of the readership if comments here are correct.

Personally, I don't mind whether it has a disc or not, I'm happy with the systems I operate so am not that interested in what's new, apart from developments in cameras and formats.

Fair comments Malcolm, but I would say that the inclusion of a CD/DVD has been raised on many occasions by members of this board. I don't know how significant the inclusion of a cover DVD is down to pressure from members on Bob to go down this route, but from messages I have read over the past few years, I would say the general consensus was that this is what the readership asked for.
I hope Father Christmas can deliver what you want and a whole lot more (the latest miniature vid cam for one of your helicopters would go down rather well I think!)

Rick.

Malcolm,

I think you may have missed the substantive point that I made in the posting to which I referred you in my last comment.

What I was saying there was that without a redesign, a DVD and a price increase, we very likely would have been delisted by WH Smith, and that, almost certainly, would be terminal for the mag.

I understand your position absolutely in terms of affordability, but, bottom line is if we had not done what we did do, you'd likely not be able to buy the mag even when good times return for you, cos it wouldn't have existed.

Bob C

"especially when they blindly use the info and get their 20 multiple choice questions wrong".

Hi Gary

Always told my students (Business) that if they copied material make sure that it was from a reliable source.

Harry

yep ..... but everything in print is reliable !!!!

Bob,

Thanks for clarifying that... I must admit I skimmped through the post and must of missed that !

I still feel that its a shame that magazines have to go down this route in order to stay alive, but credit where credits due.. you have done well to add a cover DVD to the magazine for £2.00.

Fortuately, lady luck has shined on me and I'm in a position to get a copy this month and I'm off to WHS this afternoon ... just hope they have a copy left !

I no longer subscribe to CV or CVE or VE or whatever we should call it now ;)

I no longer buy it off the shelf either. AT £6 an issue it simply is not worth it. Neither is ANY other monthly magazine worth that amount of money.

Why should we pay for the priviledge of being sold advertising?

Time after time the magazine industry STOPS listening to it's readers and starts listening more to it's advertisers and share holders, and then they disappear.

You should take a note from some other types of magazine, many of the 'hobbyist' type mags still sell at only £3.20 a month. A much more realistic price.

I no longer subscribe to CV or CVE or VE or whatever we should call it now ;)

I no longer buy it off the shelf either. AT £6 an issue it simply is not worth it. Neither is ANY other monthly magazine worth that amount of money.

Why should we pay for the priviledge of being sold advertising?

Time after time the magazine industry STOPS listening to it's readers and starts listening more to it's advertisers and share holders, and then they disappear.

You should take a note from some other types of magazine, many of the 'hobbyist' type mags still sell at only £3.20 a month. A much more realistic price.

the hobbyist mags at £3.20 probably have a permanent subscriptioon level which allows that cost level to be set.

how many of them also have a webboard that supports it's users , in fact , i have problems finding another magazine with as active/helpfull a webboard.

I am not the one paying for my copy , BUT , if i was , i would purchase it at £6.00

since that and pcpro are my only every month indulgence , with focus magazine when i remember i would be spending a rough total of 15.00 per month or 50p per day.

my partner spends more than that on daily papers never mind the 'womens magazines' which are 'cheap at £1.45 each' , but she buys at least 2 every week.

Gary,

If you brake everything down (petrol, shopping etc) things always seem excellent value for money, but it still the initial outlay that is the bitter pill to swallow.

If you brakedown the average cost of motor insurance for example, it still works out at around 80p - £1.00 per day which doesn't sound a lot. But every year we all shop around to get the cheapst quote as the annual outlay is a lot to find.

Bob,

I hate to mention it, but the change of name and image hasn't made WHS place the magazine amongst the likes of Camcorder User and other such magazines. The branch I visited this morning had VEM tucked away right at the back on the bottom shelf, buried next to the magazines that deal with 3D animation and other CGI magaizines.

Interestingly next to Camcorder User, What Camcorder etc and right at the front of the display I found "Digital Video" magaizine, which also has a DVD cover disk featuring almost identical offerings as VEM. Priced at £4.99 its only a quid cheaper than VEM, but its at that magical price point below a fiver that makes it seem more value for money.

Whilst I was there two people came in and purchased a copy of Digital Video magazine, obviously not awear that there was a more specialist magazine just 3 feet away. Hope this is just a local thing, but if its happening in all the branches of WHS this could have a dramatic impact on sales of your magazine. I'm in no way saying that DVM is better than VEM, but wanted to provide some positive factual feedback, which hopefully you can address with WHS.

Guys - maybe you could all pop into your local WHS and note where exactly they have placed VEM in relation to the other magazines. With this survey Bob could then take the matter up with WHS if is appears that the issue is not related to just my local branch in Stevange.

hang on a minute! Malcolm, are you saying the mag's in the shops with the new title already? seems a bit early... i wasn't expecting the next issue for a few weeks yet, and where's my subs copy?

mark.

Littlebrother wrote:

"I no longer subscribe to CV or CVE or VE or whatever we should call it now ;)
I no longer buy it off the shelf either. AT £6 an issue it simply is not worth it. Neither is ANY other monthly magazine worth that amount of money.
Why should we pay for the priviledge of being sold advertising?"

As harlequin replied, the fact that you have use of this forum, with 232 postings to your name, can you not see that to a certain extent (even though this message board is hosted by the good dvdoctor), the existence of this board is down to the existence of the magazine, and without this magazine the membership would be nothing. As concerns advertising, I would say you have never had it so good as far as editorial content is concerned; the new look mag has more content AND the advantage of a DVD, that incidentally is what the majority of the readership has been requesting for over two years. This board offers the best (in my opinion) advice and help that you will find on the net for this genre, and while it is possible for anyone to be a "freeloader" in joining this board, I don't think I am alone in feeling some moral appreciation of what this board provides, and that appreciation is reflected in subscribing to, or purchasing, the magazine. I am sure I am not alone in how much I value this board, and if push came to shove, (god forbid it should ever happen), this is probably one of very few sites that I would be prepared to pay a nominal subscription for. How many times have members had a problem resolved from information either searched for, or posted by a new topic for, that has solved that problem from the knowledge and advice given from fellow members, that could not have been found (or RELIED upon), elsewhere on the net.
Rick.

If this sounds sycophantic I don't care !

Mark,

Yes the mag in its new format is in Smiths, it has the DVD and I'm 99% sure the title has been changed

Which month of issue, Malcolm?

John, I've just phoned the store and they informed me that it's the December issue.

Mike, I owe you an appology - looks like that 1% got me - The issue in Stevenage was the old format of computer video editing and not Video Editing

Incidently Bob, looks like you need to change the glue used to fix the DVD to the cover as they only had one left and it was minus its cover disk ! Maybe you should use tape rather than the low tack glue to secure the DVD ??

Malcolm,

The glue's fine, but if people want to nick the DVD they will, and this way, the mag doesn't get shredded, too.

If anyone ends up with a mag with no DVD, they contact us and we send one.

Oh, and as you'll see by my editing of my original posting here - the changes start (sort of) with the Jan issue that goes on sale end of this month, and is fully implemented in the Feb issue that goes on sale just before Christmas.

Bob C

Interestingly today Borders in Leicester have CVE (December) in the Video and Home Cinema section rather than the computer section.

Edit

Why did I say interestingly?

I don't know how these things work, but what about just going to a virtual magazine on the internet? I think that they are called e-zines?
People could either pay a single issue access or a longer term access (perhaps this could be more flexible than the traditional subscription times on paper magazines) and then have unlimited access to the contents. They could be downloaded and saved and printed out if needed by the reader.
Perhaps there could even be an archival service where people pay for the articles that they want to read/download. They could have access to current and previous material of interest.
If it was economically feasable, it might be a good way to go, especially in a field such as this.
With the popularity of broadband among end users, a good server setup at the publisher's end could provide a quick, reliable and readily accessible information service.
Just a thought, since I don't know what other ramifications such a situation would have.

ps: And certainly keep the forum, which is such a valuable resource.

I spend time at work with many students who work using virtual learning packages.

They are great for some things .... Not for others.

i have a some observations / questions

1. no new people get to hear about it unless they have access via computer , unlike seeing the mag in a shop.
2. anyone with a standard dial-up account is penalised in time taken to download info.
3. how many advertisers will pay to advertise in a virtual magazine ?
4. updating reviews/etc is fast , but , like a update in a mag , to see the relevent info would require re-downloading the original fixed article or downloading the updates.
5. if people are going to pay for the content it would need a good secure server.
6. i don't fancy downloading some of the files over even my broadband connection , i prefer the dvd.

Following on from what Gary says - the only reason that sudents use virtual learning packaged is that they have to. If it's the only way to pass exams then thy ahve to, but they have to be sat with the technology.

For reading for pleasure then it's not really possible to make someting of this standard commercially viable using the e-zine concept, unless the content is low-cost. With VE it's not, there has to be an investment to bring the contnent togetehr. Additionally reading on the train, in front of the telly, in an armchair, in bed, bath or on the loo is then not possible.

As an aside, because of the advances in technology over collaborative work brought on by the paperless office, everyone keeps their own paper copies of each stage to prove what they did!

Bob

What are the economics of polythene bagging the mag plus DVD instead of cover glueing - or do you need people to look inside the mag to convince themselves they want to buy?

Malcolm

Since you state you are not going to buy the mag anymore, why are you looking at it in WH Smiths?

Do you just read it then put it back on the shelf?

Perhaps the mag should be in covered in plastic, like Digital Photography made easy :)

It's still not worth £6 every month. This is rip-off britain at work.
Instead of a targetted ad campaign at driving up subscription levels, and then saying "bye bye" to WHSmith, the publishers have taken the path of least resistance and given in.

Believe me, at £6 an issue for a non mainstream mag VE will not be here this time next year.

An as for the forum, are you telling me that £1.50 each month from every issue pays for the forum? No didn't think so.

I for one am not scared to stand up against rip off Britain, and I am voting with my feet (and wallet).

So here's a proposed solution, one which I for one would jump at:- Produce the same mag, sans DVD in subscription only format, at £4.00 per month, plug it HEAVILY in the mag, and place adverts in other mags for it, build up a really decent subscription level, then tell WHSmith exactly which shelf to put their listing on.

I am obviously a little dim this morning.

If you are no longer going to buy the magazine , how will you know that there is an offer for subscribers only , and which other magazines would you like the advert in , or you'll miss them too.

If you really find £6.00 per month too much for a magazine that helps answer many questions and warns people of bad products out there , then that is fine , you don't need to buy it.

the forum is run as a seperate entity , but i see it as part of the bigger 'working together in video' picture.

how many other sites like this are there , i know about creative cow , and others for a specific piece of software/hardware/manufacturer , but where else do you get the mixture as here ?

my video work is for a company , whereas yours is for yourself , so maybe i see the cost differently.

i certainly get £6.00 worth per month out of the magazine and webboard .......... and so do many of our students , using it to find 'real answers to real questions'

Mike,

I didn't get as far as opening the cover !

I picked up the magazine, then collected the DVD that had fallen off the cover as (IMO) the glue isn't strong enough. I looked at the price, looked at the sleave of the DVD and then stuck both back on the shelf.

I know it sounds silly that we're arguing over what seems a trivial amount of £2.00, but when you're on a limited income and every penny counts, spending that £2 on a magazine is hard to justify. You start looking at that £2 as being a few days gas or electric or other bills.

Perhaps you should develop your helicopter hobby more!

As you are in that hobby you will no doubt heard of a pal of mine "Geoff Bell"! he has flown model helicopters all over the world using them for many filming jobs. The Strangeway Riots, Life of Birds to name but a few.

You will then be able to afford the magazine!

BTW, having been involved in R/C modeling some years back I know the costs involved in this hobby so I`m really surprised as to how much you have been whinging on about a magazine that represents very good value for money. As regards this web board facillity, I personally consider it about the best there is, even if I have crossed swords with various people & no doubt will again.

Hi Malcolm

I don't think it is expensive.

Look at digital photography mags. They are all around the £5 - £6 mark.

Surely whether a magazine (or anything else) is expensive depends on its content as well as its price?

If the content has interest and use for me, then I will pay any price I think is justified.

I have stopped buying the magazine because I found that I had stopped reading it, or at least the majority of the articles in it.

I had stopped reading them, not because they are without merit or value, but because they did not interest me. This is a purely personal matter.

Come on, £6? it would have to be 1000 pages thick with hand on tutorials and free gifts, and no adverts to be worth £6.

Just because everything else on the same shelf is £6 doesn't stop it being a rip off.

Malcome Crabbe wrote

I couldn't agree more.

Due to recent change in circumstances, and a baby on the way, I am truly saddened that I can no longer afford my favourite magazine. I recently let my subscription lapse, and eagerly awaited the next issue at my local WHSmith, but when I saw the price I got that same horrible feeling you get when you realise you're loosing a good friend.

Littlebrother,

Perhaps you should read all of my post, from which you quote out of context, before you blow your top. If you do, you will find that I am making the same point as you do in your post - the magazine is not worth £6 to me.

I think your idea of the economics of magazine production is a trifle extreme.

Perhaps everyone is entrenching their arguments to no end.

If people can't or won't afford it that that's up to them. It is no good telling them they're wrong.

Likewise if people WANT to afford it and find value out of it, then it's no good telling them they're wrong either.

The decision has been made commercially - for survival - as no magazine is going to want to drive itself into the ground. To place the magazine with additional content - a DVD - and a change of title shows how the owners of the mag view their future. All publications are going through a hard time of competition and this is a response to the market.

The content is arguably better than the majority - if it doesn't interest you then fine - that's your choice - but for me it has proved (with the Pinnacle LE review in April) a superb way of getting colleagues to agree to buy kit - but then I'm being selfish.

But if sufficient people don't buy the magazine then it'll fold because WHS don't stock it - and you can't tell WHS where to go if you want to survive in their own market. With subscription only there would be a devil's own job to get new subscribers as there would be very few places whwre the magazine was stocked to get the visibility that is necessary to encourage people to take out a subscription.

I'm not either defending nor condoning the decision - the decision has been made commercially and for survival. What happens we shall all have to wait and see. But I'll be buying it from WHS and not taking out a subscription (which would be more convenient and cheaper) as that (according to Bob a few months ago) is the best option to encourage WHS to keep stocking it and ensure its survival.

Alan, the same thing has happened to me. I am looking for more tutorial stuff and articles on filmmaking techniques, but most articles are of the equipment and software review type and I am not interested in those anymore.
There is a mag from the US (Videomaker) which I sometimes get which tends to have regular articles on filming and sound and scriptwriting etc., and I wish there were more of these in the mags here. The Digital Video mag is nice but it's very elemental and pitched to a novice audience.
All in all, I find the forums here and elsewhere as valuable, or more so, than any magazine. They have been the source of great advice, links and problem solving, and I must thank Bob and all the others who provide these forums, as well as the great people who help each other on them.
I hope we don't lose these sort of forums.

Previous posts from Bob suggest that it was WHSmith who dictated it should have a cover DVD and a price hike.

Now that it'll no longer be listed in the computer section, we can dispense with the DVD and reduce the price again! We win!

Humble appologies. I did not mean to make your quote sound out of context, and I did note that you made the same point.

Barry,

The last item I purchased for my helicopters was almost a year ago, when I was employed, and like most hobbies you can spend as much or as little as you want. And before you hipe on about running cost, they're electic so I don't have to buy expensive fuel !!

Incidently the equivilent magazine to VEM for RC Helicopters is still just £3.50 per issue, and as yet they don't seem to feel the need to add a cover disk. Oh and I haven't purchased a copy of that for months now - can't afford such luxuries !

Interestingly, I too have a RC Helicopter hobby.
My Hirobo Shuttle has been lying on my self waiting for a new engine for over a year now.

I see a pattern emerging here..... :cool:

"My Hirobo Shuttle has been lying on my self waiting for a new engine for over a year now."

I may be able to put up with it for a few months, but after a year I would try to have it removed.

Pedantic and childish of me, but I did find it amusing.

Malcolm

The point I was trying to get across was that you might be able to use your hobby to earn money and spend as you see fit.

Sorry, I mis-read you post Barry

There is a saying in Scotland,

"He knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing".

Alan

Are you that gold medal 100m guy from Edinburgh, or just a similar name?

There's an L of a difference, Mike!

so Bob, you've changed the name on the mag, but Video Forum 2005's exhibitor list thinks it's Computer Video... ;)

Don't worry, the show organisers knew about the decision with 30mins of it having been taken, so hopefully, all materials at the show will have VE, instead of CVE. If not, it will be our fault, cos we supply all the info, and none of it has gone out yet!

Bob C

Bin meaning to drop a line, I like the new format, I like the DVD included. I think it'll make a useful reference library. I like the way the "how to do it" articles are included, it saved me from ripping the pages out of the mag and scanning them

Keep up the good work.

Carl

Hi - I like the new mag.

Re the DVD. Tryout software is ok, but is it possible to see more (royalty free) Stock Footage made available, eg sounds, animations, backgrounds?

This is the sort of stuff that always comes in handy for all sorts of things....

And more hints and tips tutorials too? It's much easier to watch video clips explaining things than reading long pages.

Cheers,
Richard

Last time I was in WH Smith (Newark,Notts), it was still in the computers section. I think this is going to keep happening until 'Computer' is dropped from the title sadly.