DVD to TIMELINE

Mac or Windows? If it's Mac: seek out MPEG Streamclip to demux the VOB files back to QT, DV, AIFF, etc, etc,...

But I bet it's Windows. :(

Hi Mooblie, You are right first time It is Windows XP Pro. I've managed to put it on the computer but only as an iso file which is not accepted by Adobe premiere. Roy Alexander

1.procoder express will allow you to convert a dvd back into dv avi for editing.
or
2. replay the dvd in a dvd player and capture the analogue signal to your pc.
or
3. if the editing is purely 'deleting' scenes , dvd shrink wil allow you to re-edit the dvd
or
4. i think ulead dvd movie factory disk edition allows editing from a source dvd.

the moral of this story is never master to dvd alone
personally
i back up the project files,titles,graphics (movie and stills)
and all music and SFX all to dvd as data. I keep all of the rushes which were batch catured using timecode.
so in theory i should be able to recreate a project long since deleted if i need to.

Tell us how thats done Mad_Mardy and I will find someone to explain it to me. :D

Try explainig that to joe public who think dv tape is dead now that Dvd camcorders are upon us, and those who say that since mpeg files can be edited, the case for master Tapes with avi files no longer exists

you shouldn't need to explain anything to joe public you tell them as a professional what must and must not be done.
If i give master tapes to clients i always keep a copy myself

R ferguson
i fail to understand your comment

The message is simple; always make backups. Use dvds as data stores, not just for video; put copies of all working files onto dvd for safe-keeping, that's just common sense.

Thanks everyone for the input I shall try playing the DVD on a player and try to get the content onto DV tape via a Camcorder. I should of thought of that before. I note that Alan suggest we should place all files etc onto DVD. That is my problem, I did just that with the Video film and now can't retrieve it onto the programme I want to use. After two and half years the customer now wants chapters put on the film. DVD Workshop and Sonic MYDVD de-luxe both wont accept the ISO file.

Regards to all who have contributed.
Roy Alexander Willow Court Studios.

Hold it, I was saying use dvds as data stores, not for video playable in a dvd player. A dvd is a Digital Versatile Disc, it will hold whatever you put on it, it doesn't have to be MPEG, there's no reason why you shouldn't put your project files there, and they're cheap enough to use them to store footage in original AVI files. Don't use MPEG-compressed files as archive, you'll regret it.

Which is exactly what i said about two post before, if some people could read they'd be dangerous :(

Mad_Mardy:- My comment was implying that if there is a way to copy and store my Premeir Project/Timeline to a DVD as a master and be able to restore it back to the computer for re-editing, then I would be very interested in how it is done.

Cheers

Well its not so much a case of saving the project/timeline as a master
but more a case of saving the project file from premiere or whatever u use + all the stills titles and graphics video's (from after FX or whatever u use), in short everything that was in the project to 1 or 2 DVD discs as DATA but NOT the main footage from the tapes
(as long as it was captured using timecode).
The footage from the tapes can then be redigitised using the timecodes logged withing the project.
for instance with Premiere Pro the logged clips are within the project, the same with pinnacle liquid series. In premiere 6.5 and below you would also have to save the batch capture lists which you create when you log and capture the clips the first time around.

When reassembling the project many moons later you just copy everything back from the dvd discs to the locations and drive they were originally in (with premiere at least if it can't find anything you can tell it where it is now so the last bit doesn't apply)
the last step is then just to re capture the video from the tapes.

to make it easier i have a uniform way of laying out my projects on the drive
1 folder in the route of the drive i am using usually named the same as the project
withing this folder goes the main project file plus folders for each tape, graphics, music ,titles etc. So in effect the whole project is contained within a single folder on the Drive.
Once the video (original tape footage) has been removed it is sometimes quite possible to write this folder to disc as it stands (all depends of course on how big the project was and what it contained)

To put it simply, when you do your editing, make sure that your project file, plus all the relevant files, all all in the same folder (or subfolders). When you're ready, just copy that folder to dvd as though it were a huge floppy. If it's too big for one, split it over two or more. Don't reformat anything, just copy the files to dvd. Then, when you want to go back into that edit in 5 years time, just copy all the files back from the dvd(s) onto hard drive and get on with the edit.

Are you saying that I can save all the info onto DVD except the actual video footage which must be retained on the original tapes.

Yes. But I'm also saying that you can put actual footage there as well, provided it fits. Treat the dvd as a big floppy, write-once if it's a dvd-r or dvd+r.

The chances are the video footage isn't going to fit on the DVD, well you could get 16mins on there. The point is if its done right there is no need to have the video on the dvd because the exact same clips and be brought back into the project the same way they were originally. of course this is if you keep the original camera tapes and do not re use (which i don't)
you can then store a whole project as a few tapes and a couple of DVD discs

Sorry Fergie i originally thought you were being sarcastic as i thought most people did this in some form or another

Roy, there is another alternative, mentioned by Harlequin back in the start of this thread then buried in the rush :)

You can use a program such as the ImToo DVD Ripper to take the contents of your DVD and convert to AVI - and it'll give you options for codecs - with the sound coming out as a separate file - again, with options. I use it regularly to retrieve video supplied only on DVD as a master (sigh). Obviously, converting to AVI and then back to MPEG for the new DVD is going to result in some generational quality loss but how much, and whether it is noticeable/acceptable, only you will be able to tell.

Jon

Not quite if you mean Using Procoder to go from mpeg to AVI.
I was recently given the task of reauthoring a DVD from one made on a settop Phillips recorder .There were 5 VOB files. I renamed them as mpeg and got tried to import to DVDWS. The first 3 worked fine and the last 2 would not work allow importation. I then had to reencode them with Procoder and all was fine. After some Minimal editing / trimming:I got a new DVD with good quality.
For comparison , I recorded the original DVD to camcoder(s-video ) and recaptured to PC with firewire.(mpeg-analogue-AVI-) for some editing in LE .
There was ( inspite of this convoluted method) minimal loss of PQ .I think the main advantage ( and why I didnt use the analogue capture via LEs' BOB) was gettting new time code.
Im also quite keen to learn project backup strategies esp when people suddenly ask you long after the original time to produce a project which you may have deleted off your system to make way for new material .This problem can catch anybody unawares!
PS: the Im too ripper link was broken

The ImToo Ripper works by addressing the DVD directly - you don't have to go delving around in the VOBs :) You point it at a DVD, tell it what you want it to come out as, and press go. Half an hour later, AVIs & WAVs lined up ready to edit. I would have thought this substantially simpler than setting up a multiple chain recording via an analogue device.

The link still seems to work for me - unless some kind mod has fixed it.

Jon

Hi Shellgrip. What you say sounds interesting. could you tell me where I can get the ImToo Ripper programme.
cheers , Roy Alexander.

Roy
shellgrips link now works
here
it looks interesting:)
Shellgrip ,
thanx for the suggestion . If all else fails the master copy DVD can still come to the rescue. BTW what does it do with the menu?

Ah, menus... It appears to ignore menus, including motion menus, so all you get are the video timelines.

Extracting menus from a DVD is something I'm looking into at the moment. I've been able to locate a VOB stream for one of my motion menus but not the other, and on some discs I can't find the menus at all. One of our US partners is being very difficult and insisting he can only provide a 'master' for UK distribution as a DVD. Despite my attempts to convince TPTB here that the only acceptable master is a tape at the level of the final edit, they seem to think I'm merely being difficult and have agreed to take DVD masters.

So know I've got to find a way to take a DVD, extract the movie elements, recreate the menus, add in our logos and warnings and all without losing quality. The ImToo package is part of that experiment (but of course has a 'double' encoding issue) and I'm now looking at methods of joining VOB streams to preserve the original encoding. Menus are proving a problem - to extract the original - but I think mine are better than theirs anyway :)

Jon

This is a problem I had myself recently. Using MSP 7 I just renamed the .VOB files to .MPG and dropped them on the timeline. You can then edit them. I think that tip came from John PR8. You'll need to reauthor to DVD though. I couldn't get the original menus to work properly by simply renaming back to.VOB afterwards. Probably because the files are now different in size.

There are tools out there that can interrogate for menus and, apparently, provide 'editing' capabilities for DVDs (such as omitting certain items, replacing others) prior to burning.

I'm reluctant to post the ones I've found as they pretty much give you everything you need to deconstruct commercial DVDs. If a moderator want's to examine the product in question first...

Jon

Just because a tool allows you to do it , doesn't mean everyone would be able to.
I think 30 seconds on google and sites already mentioned on these forums would give many people with ability to use search , a way of doing this.

pm the user the info if you want , or give them the google search phrase.

Fair enough Gary, I've PM'd Arthur. I didn't want to breach any protocols :) As you say, this stuff isn't hard to find but I sometimes feel that handing it to the world on a plate is something else ;)

Jon

The reauthor mode of dvd of this little gem seems to be able to identify the Menus VOB

Hi Again thanks for the info from everyone but its far above my head. I've managed to get a free download of I'mTOO RIPPER . Its only a trial and only gives five minutes of converting. Trouble is I cant make head or tail of what to do with it. Any simple instructions step by step would be gratefully received, No technical jargon please, I'm to old to understand its meaning. Please start with the fact that I have a DVD what needs to be converted to an AVI file so I can use it with DVDWS.

Thankyou Roy Alexander

you want to cut up the present dvd and only insert chapters , then rebuild a new dvd ?

1. on a dvd or only as an iso file ?
2. footage length in time ?
3. no major re-editing required ?

with above info i'll tell you how i would do it on a pc , with software you already have plus only freeware if required.

Hi Gary,
Yes I want to cut up the present DVD and only insert chapters. Then rebuild a new DVD and I also want to put the new result onto DV tape via one of my Camcorders which has DV in facilities.
The footage is 50 mins. No major editing is required.
I have Ulead DVD Workshop. Sonic My DVD deluxe. Pinnacle DVD 500 DV . Nero Smart Start.
Stand alone Main Concept MPEG Encoder. Windows XP Pro.
Hope this info is what you need. My operation is Film and Video production. I am not a computer expert and don't understand the jargon. but once shown I can usually operate a programme.
Thanks - Roy Alexander. Willow Court Studios.

You may have a major problem with converting MPEG2 back to DV.

If you can wait till the new year :
can you make a copy of the disc and send it to me.
i'll do a conversion to dv for you , and tell you how i did it in the package back to you.

If not , i'll post a 'how i would do it now' later on tonight , once i get home.

I Can wait till new year. I can send you a copy of DVD in question. To where shall I send it. Roy Alexander.

Gary, Received your message and will be posting a copy of the DVD to you for you to work on in your own time.
Thanks for your help and seasons greetings to you. Roy Alexander

Try this dvd ripper.
http://www.yasasoft.com/dvdripperplatinum/