Is it quiet here or what?

I can hear a pin drop. (Better keep my slippers on!)

Chirpy

P.S. Shouldn't this be in the Chatter forum?

Sorry to waken you Chirpy :)

I was just keeping my link to the forum open just in case.

The effect of the sad news been profound.

Can we sue for P.C.V.M.S.D?

;)

I was just thinking the same! I`m confident that it`s just a "Blip"

If you think it`s quiet here try some of the other forums, on Inscriber TM it took 10 months to get an answer & In-Deep needs more traffic. Maybe we are all becoming more knowledgeable! yeah,right. ;)

Maybe it's because people have other things on their mind at the moment? Shopping for instance.

Johnxl1s, you have to be joking! Almost every page on this site has 'coming soon' stamped on it!

There are 145 pages on dvuser, and only 3 say "Coming soon". I can see how this could look like "Almost every page" though ;)

Nigel/John,

My visit to the site was very hasty and so I may just have been unlucky in choosing the 3 pages that had 'coming soon' on them.

I have now had another look and I can see that whilst it is still quite new, the site has promise. All it will take is for more people to 'hop over' and have a look.

Colin

Hi
Hopping now!

Peter

Flashback (and johnxl1s),

This is absolutely the last warning you are going to get about "poaching".

The very next instance we see will result in the offender being kicked out.

At that point I'll come over to Nigel's site and start taking the piss out of him - and, frankly, just looking at Nigel's picture on the forums and the lack of substance there and in much of the editorial, that is going to be VERY easy to do, especially for someone who's been taking the piss out of much bigger and smarter targets for the last 25 years.

Bob C
Really not best pleased that we are having to warn off this particular vulture again!

If anyone doubts Nigel's motives, they'd be well advised to look at the count of his postings here prior to my announcement on Dec 9 of CV's closure, and after that announcement was made.

I think the story is plainly told by looking at those figures.

Bob C

Ah, amazing what a bit of digging can do!

Nigel, would I be right in saying that you've signed up here before under different names?

Names that, I imagine, quite a few regulars will remember with some distaste?

Though there may be other names (folks, anyone able to supply other names?), the ones I'm thinking of are:

manualexposure

and

dragonslayer

So, Nigel, care to come clean?

Make a sort of full confession before I pull the trigger?

It might be good to go with a clear conscience. Or, judging by past events, perhaps not.

Or can you tell me I've got it all wrong?

Oh, and perhaps you should also tell us the name of your website partner and whether he/she (like you claim about yourself) is so grossly overpaid that he/she only has to work eight weeks of the year (and, thus, I presume, has too much time on his/her hands for his/her own good, like you)?

Bob C
(It's so boring having a battle of wits with an unarmed man!)

Oh come on Bob, this is unnecessary.

Speaking as a reader, it's not 'us vs them' it's ME and the rest of the world.

I'm a loyal reader of the DV Doctor forums, and just because I'm now also reading DVUser AND the SimplyDV forums, doesn't mean that I'm suddenly going to stop reading DV Doctor!

For my day job, we sell books. There is virtually a 100% crossover between our customers and Amazon. It's the nature of the internet. We don't begrudge our customers going to 'the competition', because we know that they'll eventually come back because we provide a good service, and for some books, we are the best overall. Swings and roundabouts!

Please concentrate on service and quality, rather than this silly myth that we are 'your customers'! If I want information, I'm not going to be told where I can and can't go to get it, and I'm appreciative when given the opportunity to find more.

As for Nigel 'advertising', yes, it's a bit cheeky but considering the sudden demise of the magazine, and the uncertainty it brought toward 'the magazine's' forums existence, so I can see why he'd want to get in there quick before the board dissappeared. Luckily the DV Doctor board was not in great danger, as it's run by a third party, and was not part of the magazine.

Cross polination between boards is good because it keeps ME interested, and if I stay interested, then you both have something to do. You should see yourselves as brothers in arms, and not enemies! Your readers will appreciate being made welcome, whichever camp they came from originally.

Good post Chris, you have hit the nail on the head there.

I am not out to get you Bob, remember I have been putting my site together for months now and it went live seven weeks before you posted the demise of CV magazine here.

I could very easily point out all your inaccuracies in your above post Bob, Quote “just looking at Nigel's picture on the forums and the lack of substance there”. What my picture has to do with anything is beyond me and DVuser has only been live for seven weeks, give me a chance man.

That aside, I make a public apology to Bob if I have insulted him in anyway, yes it was a little cheeky to try and grab a few punters from the DVdoctor boards.

I still don't know what is to become of the DVdoctor boards, I sincerely thought it was going to fold, and so did lots of DVdoctor's other contributors, but to keep the peace, I will not post here with my signature obviously plastered along the bottom of my replies again.

Once again, I apologize if my cheeky tactics have offended Bob or anyone else on the DVdoctor forums.

Nobody is "unarmed" here Bob, I have several very large companies behind me. To be honest, this is all a little childish don’t you think, so I really am not prepared to go down this petty road with you.

It’s Xmas, have some good spirit, I bid you and your family a very good Christmas and I sincerely wish you all the best and much success for the New Year.

Happy Christmas everyone

I don't have any problem with what is going to happen to the boards.

PD has stated exactly what is to happen to them.

http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=013671

I have supported and provided the forums from day one and will continue to do so. There is NO QUESTION about them going away.

John

[ 24.12.2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: PD ]

John, I think I speak for everone when I say thanks for the last five (or is it six? My brain doesn't seem to be able to work it out) years of the forums, and long may they continue!

Along with Chris I would like to thank John, Bob and all the rest (you kow who you are) who help to run this forum and have done for the last six years or so. Also to all the experts and contributers who help to make this board and it's community what it is...

In this festive season I would like to propose to others to raise a glass in a toast to it's health... Long may the 'slightly-repositioned' DV Doctor forums prosper and continue!

:rolleyes: :D ;)

Merry Christmas one and all...

This is a very good forum. It's all about people helping each other and sharing their experience. I'll always support this kind of thing.
Alan

Me too, that's why I lurk here.

Bob Said:

Bob's question was not answered Nigel

If you are not guilty please say so

I've had a look at your site & it looks promising, however DV Doctor has a good reputation & long may it continue as the best forum around (& I'm involved in a few ;) )

Merry Christmas to you all

Hi
I observe that foxvideo (Dave Farrants) is listed as a co-moderator in the DVuser forums as well as Nigel "iMan/MrWhite/MrPink/Dragonslayer".

Dave has made many excellent and informative posts to these forums in the earlier years, so if he is involved with the new forums that should help their success.
Cheers

John, I really didn’t want to go down that road, this is why I chose to ignore that part of Bobs post, this is like opening another can of worms, however if I ignore your post I know you will only come back with all sorts of other stuff, so here goes, just for you.

The posts since my own have all been very professional and hospitable, so please let's try and keep it that way. Personally I thought the post was a little silly, pistols at dawn, handbags etc. I really did not have any intention of upsetting Bob this much. Bob is far too educated to get petty and childish and I personally would rather concentrate on the professional side of things from here on, petty arguments will not help anyone with editing problems.

That aside, if you insist, YES, I am guilty, I was iMan/Dragonslayer etc and I’m sure that many DVdoctor members have already done a search and read all of them and if you have you will find that iMan contributed very well, until the final post that got me banned.

I’m afraid that I am guilty of not pulling any punches or even being a little Acid with my remarks in the past, if you have ever seen a John Lydon or Alexi Sayle interview in recent times you will know what I mean, they too are very Acid like with their comments and tend to get people’s backs up, however, there is always truth in what they say, it’s just the way in which they say it that people do not like. I admit I could have been a lot more diplomatic in my forum etiquette, but then again, so could Bob, read his post above:

Quote: “especially for someone who's been taking the piss out of much bigger and smarter targets for the last 25 years”. And by Bob’s own admission, he too does not pull any punches with his reviews; I too have lots of contacts in this business that I have built up over the years and I know a lot of people that Bob has rubbed up the wrong way over the years, hence the quote above.

I however have recently changed my lifetime’s tune and turned over a new leaf, a man is allowed to change isn’t he? I don’t want to be known as somebody who takes the p**s out of big respectable companies.

If you came around to my house and have a dig around you might find a few other cobwebs too, I apologize for not being perfect, but this is ancient history as far as I am concerned. No more will an arrogant post go up via my keyboard, not here or anywhere.

PD (Paul Dutton) sent me a very diplomatic email a couple of days back asking me if I could kindly remove my signature if I wish to continue posting on the DVdoctor boards. This was very nice of Paul and I was very impressed by his kind manners. I emailed Paul back straight away and apologized and told him that I would immediately remove my signature and refrain from blatant poaching in future and that I would continue to help out on the forum, only in a more genuine and educational manner.

However, when I went to remove my signature, I learned that a forum moderator/administrator had already done it for me!
Paul was not aware that somebody had done this, I don’t know if it was Bob, maybe not, but some of us have more tact and diplomacy than others, at least this is my new found motto and I am sticking to it from now on.

Quote (JohnPR98) “I've had a look at your site & it looks promising, however DV Doctor has a good reputation & long may it continue as the best forum around”

I couldn’t agree more with this John, I too love the DVdoctor forums and have done for several years, Flashback is the new me and I am sure the DVdoctor will continue for many years.

There is a saying in the Bible (not that I’m religious), which reads, “Once a man admits that he is wrong, he is immediately forgiven for ALL wrong doings”.

It’s Christmas, a time of forgiveness; can we please put the pistols down and let bygones be bygones, water under the bridge etc?

OK Nigel you've come clean, however as you are also johnxl1s (Presume this is the etc.), you haven't been behaving as good forum member should.

I can understand why Bob is annoyed & your tactics aren't honourable, as per this post just 2 days ago in this thread:

A blatant poaching post, if it wasn't you, my apologises, however saying:

You turning over a new leaf isn't proven yet, the johnxl1s post gives me little confidence in your website if you used this alias.

Bob's reputation is straight talking & more power to his elbow.

I can assure you John that I am not JohnXL1S.

I'm trying to put this behind me, so again, I implore you to let bygones be bygones, or do you really want to drag this into the new year? I know I don't, and more to the point I won't, it's unprofessional and beneath me John.

I can understand your scepticism, but I can assure you that I am a new guy these days, however if you do not want to forgive me, then I forgive you for this.

Bob said:

That was my reason for thinking that you are johnxl1s, however you have been known to use other names.

For you saying that you'll be a new guy, time will prove you right or wrong.

I hope you get an improvment on your forum's 133 posts so far.

Regards

133 posts is fine John, I'm sure this will grow over the course of next year, how many posts did DVdoctor have after just a few short weeks?

I don't see this as any sort of competition like you do and I have no intention of playing catch up with the DVdoctor forums, there are many forums out their, as Chris Thomas has pointed out above: www.simpydv.co.uk and www.videoforums.co.uk and www.theiac.org.uk and www.showreel.org and www.shootingpeople.org about 2 dozen others and now dvuser, and over the next two years I would imagine that another 25 will appear also, get used to it, the internet is a very, very, very big place, in fact it actually covers the whole world.

DVdoctor been around for 5 years and will be for many more, so the posts on here are bound to be much larger in numbers than my own site, but, believe it or not, I don't care, I don't see it that way and I wish you would stop seeing it that way too.

Believe it or not John, the world would be a very dull place indeed if the DVdoctor was the only site out there to cover our digital video needs, ask anyone on here and they will all tell you that they have many sites bookmarked both here in the UK as well as the zillions in the USA, I think most people on here will at least have the creativecow.net bookmarked and various PC and Apple sites that have forums specializing in their software, that's just how life is, people seek their knowledge from many sources.

We all have to start somewhere don't we?

Now I'm off to enjoy my Christmas.

Kind regards and have a good Xmas yourself.

134.

Flashback

I have 'No Comment' on your last post, it speaks volumes on it's own.

Happy New Year

I don't normally get involved in this type of thread. Unforunatly there are too many egos involved here. Sometimes things left unsaid is the better course of action. Computer video mags demise is probaly a result of its own success as the original readers moved on and upwards therefore creating a limited market. In other words people new to non-linea editing required basic info from a mag and those of us that have been around for some time need more in depth info. Unfortunatly you can't cover all areas. I know that the more in depth you get the more limited the market.
As Bob knows from the early days the basics were quite complicated , but once understood quite easy. To try and produce a mag of quality coverng all areas and standards is difficult,and as current events show,economically not viable.

The Dv doctor forum is an area where people new to editing can get an almost instant answer to their questions and long term members know they can get a problem solved from members who over the years they have learned to trust.

What I am trying to say Bob ,is don't get involved in petty arguments but put your considerable knowledge and energies into making this the best DV forum on the WEB.

There are thousands of sites out there , this one will only stay relevent and popular if it offers more than the others. This is where we the long term members play our part.

So come on Bob , you've kept this site clear of petty stupid threads ,lets keep it that way. close this one and get back to what we do best HELPING PEOPLE WITH THEIR EDITING PROBLEMS.

Happy Christmas

Mick

Amen.

I followed Chirpy's link and found the site quite interesting but I can also understand Bob's reaction.

After the sad news of the mag closing it would be an easy thing for people to assume that the site might be in danger as well.

Any signs of panic could lead to a collapse in numbers using the forum which would only lead to a downward spiral.

I find the unseemly haste to look elsewhere a bit premature and the words "Vultures", "Rats" and "Sinking ship" are brought to mind.

BobA

Yes, I suppose looking for other boards could be seen as a rat deserting a sinking ship, however it became very clear very quickly that this ship was not sinking.

I have been on other websites that have suddenly vanished before now, and the feeling of loss is oddly profound, bordering on bereavement! It's not a nice feeling, and running around like a headless chicken (I'm describing myself here) looking for another home for your 'friends' that you've spent the last six years with, is simply human nature. I didn't want to lose you all! I was going to report back to these forums that I'd found a couple of other places where we could hang out, but again, it was not necessary to do so.

Does that still make me a rat?

1. After some investigation, Nigel Cooper has again been banned for continuous misuse of the DVdoctor forums.

2. The following DVdoctor forum login names have been banned:

* IP Address: 81.108.203.218 *
Login Name: Flashback
Email Address: nigel.mvp@ntlworld.com

Login Name: Dragonslayer
Email Address: moviemakerman@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 62.252.0.5 *
Login Name: Dragonslayer
Email Address: moviemakerman@hotmail.com

Login Name: Brian2005
Email Address: briangill2005@yahoo.com

* IP Address: 81.105.226.129 *
Login Name: Dragonslayer
Email Address: moviemakerman@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 80.2.243.85 *
Login Name: Dragonslayer
Email Address: moviemakerman@hotmail.com

Login Name: manualexposure
Email Address: manualexposure@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 80.2.243.193 *
Login Name: Dragonslayer
Email Address: moviemakerman@hotmail.com

Login Name: MrWhite
Email Address: musicpromogirl@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 62.253.128.5 *
Login Name: iMan
Email Address: nigel.mvp@virgin.net

Login Name: Speedy
Email Address: nigel.mvp@vigin.net

* IP Address: 81.105.226.29 *
Login Name: MrWhite
Email Address: musicpromogirl@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 80.2.243.114 *
Login Name: MrWhite
Email Address: musicpromogirl@hotmail.com

* IP Address: 62.253.128.7 *
Login Name: MrWhite
Email Address: musicpromogirl@hotmail.com

Login Name: Mr Pink
Email Address: macosx_man@yahoo.com

* IP Address: 213.107.224.5 *
Login Name: MrWhite
Email Address: musicpromogirl@hotmail.com

Login Name: Mr Pink
Email Address: macosx_man@yahoo.com

Login Name: stevegarratt
Email Address: steve.garratt@ntlworld.com

Login Name: FoxBat
Email Address: superfulcrum@netscapeonline.co.uk

3. An email has been sent to all email addresses listed above, stating:

“Nigel,

in light of your submissions, admissions and omissions on the DVdoctor forums, and in emails, i'm writing to advise that you are no longer welcome to post on the DVdoctor forums.

a DVdoctor forum administrator will be removing the rights of all your known aliases to post.”

i've tried, but i simply don't understand why some people behave like they do...

UPDATE #1: following further investigations this post been updated to include details relating to the following additional aliases which have also been banned:
MrWhite
Mr Pink
stevegarratt

UPDATE #2: following further investigations this post been updated to include details relating to the following additional alias which has also been banned:
Brian2005

UPDATE #3: following further investigations this post been updated to include details relating to the following additional alias which has also been banned:
FoxBat

It makes you think- what makes a good forum?
There are perhaps 50 names that if I see contributing to a thread, I know will talk sound sense. 2-300 other names that contribute regularly and generally very profitably and then the less regular contributers such as myself who are more askers than answerers. If the top 50 go there would not be much of a forum. If Bob stops contributing I doubt there would be any forum.So I guess what I am saying is "it's in your hands, guys"
Regards
Tony Roberts

I've got it!
A forum is having people sad enough to chatter on Christmas Eve at 10.50pm.
Got to go, Reindeer are getting frisky.
Happy Christmas
Tony Roberts

I agree with Tony 100%. I would like to take the opportunity to thank the 'top 50' that Tony referred to because I get a lot out of this forum, and it would be all the poorer without them. Of course, the 'anchor man' has to be BobC, and long may he continue to keep us in order. Tony C. ps. Goodbye Nigel, you are the weakest link!. ;)

looking at other boards doesn't make anyone a rat.
i spend time elsewhere too , though those tend to be news groups and techtank.
I tend to ignore 'trolls' normally , it's just that some people , i.e the one(s) PD names above tend to be a little too annoying to ignore.
there is a similar poster on one of the newsgroups who attacks any post i make under one email address and agrees with anything made under my work email address , and the answers don't change technically depending upon my posting place , unlike here where i have always been careful of answering with what could be thought of as my workplaces statement on something.

and i'll probably be sad enough to be online tomorrow as well , so i'll probably bump into chirpy , whom i hope has a good 'holiday' and no windows to wash for a few days.

"ditto Tony" ....burp... merry xmas all!

Bomber_H

I've just had an email from schhh............

Night All

Not Nigel??????

Folks,

I hope that you all have a fantastic Christmas and a truly wonderful new year - not least because these are the expectations I have set for myself (and for DVdoctor) now that this sleeping giant is starting to awake.

Flattered as I always am by the kind and generous words, a few things need to be realised.

If you check back over the years since the forums started - when they were initially hosted by Dr Alan Solomon of Dr Solomon's Antivirus, rather than by DVdoctor - the number of postings I have made each day/week/month has got fewer and fewer.

And exactly the same is true of postings by Paul Dutton and the DVdoctor himself, John Ferrick.

Although we are all very busy people, that is not the substantive reason for this change.

Instead, it's that other people have been willing and able to devote their time and energies to answering the queries – people who work in the real world of video photography, video editing, broadcast, multi-media and DV authoring and are more expert in their particular areas than John or Paul or myself.

Furthermore, it is their attitude to these boards, as well as their multitudinous (truly expert) postings, that have turned this into the wondrous community that it is today – a community that I cherish deeply and have tried (and will continue to try) to protect and nurture.

This state of affairs where the postings of a forum's founders diminish in frequency is quite normal. Indeed, the arrival of willing expert contributors who would share and largely take over the load was precisely what John Ferrick told me many years back would happen.

Had he not been right (which would have been a rarity since, clever sod, he’s seldom wrong), I'm sure I wouldn't have been willing or able to sustain the quality and number of the responses required.

Without the MASSIVE input from these good people, these boards would have deservedly died the death long ago, rather than go from strength to strength as has been (and, I believe, will remain) the case.

But (and isn’t there always a but?), we have had some people on these boards who’ve failed to understand the character of the community and the rights of the members of that community. As a result, myself or another moderator has had to eject them – some times again and again, because they come back under different aliases. And, despite promises to change their ways, they very seldom do, though there have been some exceptions here, I’m pleased to say.

Typically, the people who cause discomfort to the community are generally lacking in an appreciation of the feelings of others. They don’t mix well in any community, typically, and believe that the right to free speech gives them the right to say anything. In different individuals this has meant we’ve seen and had to take action because of comments that are racist or hurtful or bigoted or ego-maniacal or deceitful or just plain wrong (the list is probably longer, but I think the idea is sufficiently well conveyed).

And getting these people to see the error of their ways is seldom possible because of the lack of social potty training that makes them the way that they are in the first place.

So, let me say in ending – I expect these boards will go from strength to strength and that DVdoctor (the forthcoming web site) will be able to provide the sort of things that our board members and a wider general public (from beginners to top broadcasters) would want from a web site devote to all aspects of video photography, video editing, DVD authoring and all associated areas.

This, I expect (and will be working hard towards) will include:

Expert, truly impartial reviews (of the kind typified by my editing of Computer Video magazine and seldom found in print or elsewhere on the net)

Great tutorials (static and video)

Interesting and exciting features

Up-to-date impartial news

Trouble-shooting guides

Buying guides

Glossaries

And a huge amount more including, of course, these fantastic forums.

Have a good one folks - I certainly plan to, well, as much as a 54-year-old teetotal fat guy with high blood pressure can expect to do when he's just been made redundant and is trying to lose weight, give up smoking, eat massively less (and better).

;)
Of course, on the upside, I plan to be intimately involved in developing the best video editing site in the world, and to live a long, happy and productive life!

Cheers

Bob C

Oh, and on the subject of editorial integrity and useful reviews, consider this as an object lesson in how NOT to meet those two standards:
www.dvuser.co.uk/Reviews/Hardware/hitachi%20hard%20drive.html

Anyone who has ever tried to evaluate a HDD, never mind actually test it to arrive at a conclusion fit for public consumption, will be horrified by the holes and utterly unscientific nature of the piece.

But, hey, if every other review about the product is good (as seems to be the case), perhaps he's on safe ground in eulogising about it, even though he seems to have done no useful testing or had any experience of modern HDDs.

And, no, I’m really not bitter and twisted – it’s just that I am totally hacked off with 5th rate writing masquerading as authoritative independent journalism, whenever and whenever it appears, and having read this tripe, I couldn’t but comment here.

Bob C
Have a good one people!

And an excellent one to you to Bob, you deserve it!

kenportree,

Welcome to the "best forum in the business".

Tim

WOW. I've never seen so many different aliases.

It's like Reservoir Dogs.

Keep up the good work Bob.

See you guys again next year.

hehe, rather good point there, Bob... seems to say more about Apple's design skills and standard modern hard drive technology than any actual tests...
oh, sorry, "listen carefully (or you might miss it!) here's the science part!"

For testing the drive I duplicated a large 1GB QuickTime file which took just 29 seconds. I also spent some time adding and deleting large media (video & audio) files to get the hard drive heating up, this didn't’t bother the drive that much, it stayed well within it’s heat limits. During these tests the Hitachi hard drive is also the quietest one I have heard or rather haven’t heard.

dodn't bother with the the rather vital process of transfer and access speeds then... ok.

and with this drive I feel totally confident and don't feel the need to drag a back-up copy of my projects

ok, never accidentally deleted anything then? not bothered about power surges, spilt coffee or the building catching fire? how about the occasional malicious virus because there are still a few about... ;) Having a good harddrive does not negate the need for a backup, and it's down right rude to suggest that it does!!! and while we're on the subject, why's he backing up video files anyway? what's wrong with the backup you've got on the original tape? just backup the EDLs, emial em to yourself or something!

anywho... happy christmas all :D

I've been looking further at this site and from http://www.dvuser.co.uk/Main%20pages/articles%20pages/uk%20copyright%20issues.html the instruction (yes, instruction) is that in order to copyright your work you should register it with The Writer's Copyright Association, UK - www.wcauk.com. Visiting that websites gives:

"Before you share your screenplay, book or other literary material with anyone, you should ensure it is copyright registered with us to prevent plagiarism."

It also says:

"3 Easy Steps to COPYRIGHT protect your material:

1. FILL IN your details.
2. UPLOAD your work.
3. PAY securely by credit card"

Now am I the only person not to have heard of this way of doing things. You can do the same thing by sending yourself a copy of your script by registered post and not opening it which proves the date. The advice may be sound for big money scripts but is a little irrelevant for the majority of us.

The more I read of DVuser the more I feel uneasy. Are there any good parts of the website that redeem these?

well, they've got Mr Willett's microphone FAQ (also found here in the FAQ section) which can only be a good thing...

Actually John, you are embarrassingly wrong about the “posting to yourself” method, which is crude and primitive and I’m afraid it won’t hold up in court for a second, here is why.

Take a large padded envelope, the type with a peal off self-sticky fold over flap. Next write your name and address on it, then DO NOT remove the peel-off sticky protector, instead use a Pritt Stick and put two tiny little specks of glue on each corner, barley enough to hold it closed, then put any old script inside the envelope or even 120 sheets of plain paper, then pop to the Post Office, pay the correct postage and send by recorded delivery.

Now, in 3 years time when a decent American blockbuster comes out, rip the script off to the letter and put it inside your “unsealed” envelope and peel off the protective strip and seal it tight and then give it to your solicitor and say “here look, they stole my film”.

I’m afraid your uneducated methods for protecting your work will last about as long as a snowflake in hell. This is something that 17-year-old Grunge guitarists believe to be the best way to protect their work, but I’m afraid anyone with an IQ over 25 will not subscribe to these questionable methods that are simply full of legal loopholes.

Just phone any solicitor when they are back and they will tell you the same thing, better still, ask Jonathan Newman the very educated author who wrote the article, he is a total authority on these matters, or speak to somebody at the wcauk for professional advice: http://www.wcauk.com

So John can I recommend that you stop giving people your false and primitive un-researched information that you obviously know nothing about, before somebody actually believes you and ends up with a lawsuit on their hands.

http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/faq/copyright/protect_rights.htm

This urban myth version of proving copyright is very easy to falsify and could be inadmissible in court.

Above taken from:

http://copyrightservice.co.uk/register/registration_questions

As I’ve said already, the “post to yourself” method will not be credible evidence for the date of creation of your work, only official registration with a recognized copyright office gives you the right to sue for copyright infringement.

Are people in the habit of being contrary just for the sake of it on these forums?

My final advice is to anyone who genuinely has a script to protect is to ask a solicitor who is schooled in copyright issues, as opposed to taking advice from somebody on a forum who thinks that digging around in Google for 5 minutes will give you the answer.

Hold Fire All

Not an expert on copyright but even Brian's link has this:

Is this remark justified though?

Gosh, healthy debate is the crux of life around here, I haven't met anyone who knows it all, yet ;) .

Best wishes

Actually the 'registered post it to yourself' advice was given to me by a respected copyright and patent agent. This method has also been taught on a design and Innovation course with the Open University (T362 if anyone's taken it). Gary has also quoted another authority.

The requirement for registration of copyright ceased with the Copyright Act 1911 - which came into force on July 1st 1912 (http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/history/) in which case I do not see any benefit at all in paying any organisation for some sort of escrow that you can gain by depositing your document at your bank or solicitors if you consider that it has sufficient value.

I just wonder whather there is as yet any case law that negates the Government advice that Gary quoted - if anyone has successfully challenged the validity of the registered letter method. I also wonder if someone could challenge the valididty and unalterability of electronic data in the same way they can't challenge the printed word. Gary's quote from the Intellectual Property site also says that you can't prove that you created the work by any means only that it was in your posession at the time. The same applies to any sort of Escrow site. You could, of course, swear an affidavit to attest to the authorship, but then the last time I had to do that (20+ years ago) it cost twenty five quid - a price that will have gone up.

With this variety of information I still wonder at the paid for escrow arrangment being given as the course of action in "Some Final Words" when there are so many alternatives.

Slightly off the subject (and totally off the topic). Back in '87 I was asked to video an event and edit it. At the time I'd just moved to Caernarfon and hadn't got around to buying a telly or VCR, let alone a video camera! Rather than buying the equipment I decided to hire a camera from 'Visionhire' and borrow a TV and two VCR's for a month. However, I wasn't sure what the situation was re. having a TV/VCR in the house just for editing purposes. Do I or don't I need a licence?

I tried the post office - that's where you get a licence from - they didn't know. Went to a TV shop, everyone stopped work to debate the issue but no one knew for definite. They came to the conclusion that it was okay not to have a licence if I wasn't actually watching TV programmes. If it was against the law I'd soon have a policeman knocking at the door! Next stop - the police station, hopefully they would know? Again, everyone got involved adding their three-pennyworth, but no one knew for definite.

Eventually I stumbled upon the Citizens Advice Bureau. I have no idea what made me think of them but I wish I'd gone to them first because they had all the details I needed to know in a thick book, stuffed with updates on little bits of paper. At no charge they copied all the relevant information I needed (and more).

Yes I did need a licence while the TV/VCR was in my home, but once the equipment was finished with I could send my licence back and apply for a refund of the unused months (similar to a vehicle tax disc).

Funny where you get to learn stuff these days isn't it?

Chirpy

Brian2005
your first two posts include

and

Knowing what John does for a living , i wouldn't have said what you did , but you have your right to type what you want.

As for myself , i don't profess to know everything about copyright , just what has worked for me before now , and the info that students use when they research copyright and media.

if you read what i put in the above thread i highlighted one third of the options advised , to prove it was 33.3% of the suggested ideas from the government department website.

p.s. it didn't take me more than 2 seconds on google to find the exact webpage i wanted

I'm pretty sure that the law says you need a licence "to operate equipment capable of receiving TV programmes" - which in Chirpys case is obviously true. (They have tuners, even if not being used.) Note that (I think) it talks of "operating", hence you don't need a licence to keep a TV/VCR in the home if it's never switched on.

I believe that a licence at your main residence also entitles you to operate portable TV reception equipment elsewhere - portable meaning not attached to an external aerial or mains power. I wonder what this means for caravanners - either use your set on batteries all the time, or if plugged into the caravans temporary mains supply do you have to get a licence for every pitch at every caravan site? And how do they get on when they have a satellite dish with the caravan.....?

That's right, the licence is "to operate..." equipment, not to own it. So a shop selling tv sets and/or recorders with tuners/decoders doesn't need a licence if none of them are ever turned on in the shop.

The licence entitles you to use as many relevant devices as you like, on your own premises. It also allows you to use 1 (only one) "portable" device away from there, as a portable. That means it has to be self-contained, running on batteries not mains. Tradttionally, this has been stretched to include caravans that still have wheels and are moved, a "mobile home" that's permanently parked constitutes separate premises and must be licenced separately. It does not matter how the programmes get to the device, antenna, cable or dish, it needs a licence. The only exception to this is using a tv as a display for a recorder/player with no connection to an aerial etc.

When you say "what has worked for me now" do you mean it worked for you in court in an actual case against somebody?

My guess is that there is not a single person on these forums who has ever been involved in any kind of copyright court case.

You could visit a hundred sites on the web and they will all have their own opinions. I am simply pointing out a fact that a “sent to ones self” script is not solid proof of ownership or date, it is full of holes and on very shaky grounds and you can NOT use such feeble evidence in court if you intend suing somebody.

I would always advise you get professional/legal advice in these matters.

At the time of my visit to the CAB (1987), the situation was, if you had a TV/ VCR in the home or shed you needed a licence for it. Whether or not you were using it was irrelevant. The fact it was on the premises was enough. Even (at that time) if you had a TV with the tuner removed or disabled you still needed a licence. I think much of it boiled down to whether or not you could prove you weren't watching TV programmes on the telly before you removed the plug and cable etc!

Another thing that people get wrong. If you only have a black and white TV but have a VCR to record programmes, you still need a colour licence because your VCR is picking up (and recording) a colour signal. People have actually been fined for acting in ignorance of this requirement.

Infocus, on the back of my current licence it reads:

I haven't quoted everything on the back of my licence, just the things you mentioned. So it says you need a licence to install or use. Therefore I presume that means if it's installed in your home (but not being used) you still need a licence?

The 'only by internal batteries' bit doesn't seem to apply to a touring caravan and I didn't see anything about not being able to hook up to an external aerial either.

HTH?

Chirpy

Bold Statement considering you only registered here today (Mr C).

As for me, I am going to read Dale Carnegie's book (If anyone doesn't know the book, please email me).

Don't you mean Mr B?

No Chirpy, unless I should have said Mr N.C. (Not Mr Crabtree either ;) )

Please scroll back a page & look who Paul Dutton has just banned (Again).

Best Regards

OIC.

A very small snippet of an abusive email I received 27 December 2004 16:35

This is one step to far IMHO!

Sorry for posting this small snippet here, however I am banned from responding to the other person by email or on his forum.

I have forwarded the emails received yesterday & today from this person for professional advice as they have many more nasty comments.

I have no axe to grind with other new forums/sites, however self promotion & possibly using 9 aliases on this forum is unprecedented.

Now that PD has taken the action he has, and for the benefit of guests coming onto this forum, I think an official view of the current requirements is required, which has already been quoted by harlequin (Gary MacKenzie).

http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/faq/copyright/protect_rights.htm says it all, as far as I'm concerned.

John Colby - apologies for letting the loathsome, sly little rodent slip in and try and nip you.

i doubt you'll catch anything though, and i'm confident the vulgar smell will clear soon enough...

such trivial vermin are easily deflected with a little elementary pest control...

cheers,

PD

PD - my skin is thick enough (and old enough), but thanks for your concern. There are a load of really good people here who offer both online and offline support.

Really it's like detecting plagiaraism in student essays and reports - you just know - then it's a matter of a simple search - but a pain having to do it nevertheless. You just wish they wouldn't and go away and pester someone else.

He was completely wrong anyway! There is someone... I was involved in a case where 'we' (the band/company) appeared against the BBC in the high court at the Old Bailey. They instigated a copyright action against us in 1992. I won't go into the details, but it cost us nearly £200k to fight it and we lost :(

The whole episode ended up with us pouring at least £500k down the drain; a lot of money 12 years ago. It's a great story and one for the archives, but I'm saving it for another day!

As for this 'off-topic' debate about copyright though I have been at the sharp end, I still don't feel qualified to pontificate. :rolleyes:

Chrome

In another thread you responded to superfulcrum.

I have a very strong suspicion that was yet another alias.

Best Regards

Now there's a funny thing. I'm no classical scholar but I am sure it was "Michael of Ockham" in the fourteenth century that said never use two explanations if one will suffice,(Ockham's Razer). To have two such contentious issues in one thread with much more rancour than is usual, smacks of one controlling influence. It is very entertaining but surely shows that "attacks" such as this tend to make "communities" stronger not weaker. What! Think on.
Regards
Tony Roberts

Returning to the original question, yes it is quiet on this particular forum. Only 5 posts from 3 people on threads other than this one. The more specific fora are doing better than the general one.A hot story gets all the attention!
Regards
Tony Roberts

John, regarding the 'reply' to the aforementioned Superfulcrum. If you read my post carefully you might see that is what I was indeed suggesting. That 'someone' was hiding behind an alias in order to raise a thread that would let them indulge in a spot of abuse to one particular individual. IMHO a cowardly way of going about things. I was suggesting it might be someone we already know!

Also Tony, what are you saying? I can see 25 different threads recieving postings today from lots of different people... what are you getting at?

Chrome
My point was that there were only 3 other threads posted on this Desktop Video General forum today. This thread we are on at present has got a lot of traffic today but probably at the expense of the other threads. The other specific fora are doing well. The original question "is it quiet..." would probably be true for this forum if it were not for this thread.
Regards
Tony Roberts

Chrome,

I think Tony was pointing out the irony of the fact that the thread about it being quiet was the one generating lots of traffic.

As a general point, I know that the activities of certain people - okay, Nigel Cooper - leave rather a bad taste in the mouth, but I don't think there's any need for anyone else to feel rattled or defensive; the "problem" is well in hand.

Bob C

Chaps, I don't think there's much of a problem. There have always been people with a view to put, with something to sell, shoulders carrying chips. Surely we're big enough and ugly enough to survive that? We don't have to descend to fisticuffs in the playground.

Well I'm big enough Alan... ;)

.

You said you were on a diet :D

Hi Charles,

Yes I am still on my diet, but if you look at part of Alan's comment again...

I came back with "Well I'm big enough Alan... ;)

I was hoping Bob or someone else would follow me up with ...and Alan's ugly enough! :D

Chirpy

johnxl1s,

No problem.

Looking forward to meeting you.

Cheers

Bob C

Chirpy,

I ask you, would *I* say something like that?

;)

Bob

Bob,

Hmmm? ...Yes. :D

But I'm happy to admit that I'm ugly enough :D Bait, when cast, does not need to be risen to (yes, I know the grammar's not right, but...)

Utterly astonished that no one has made a single cruel and spiteful comment about the above remark.

Perhaps it's fear of being kept off the rice-pudding-share list at Video Forum that keeps them all quiet?

Bob C (I say NOTHING - afterall, I don't want to be pulled from the list, diet or no diet)

Bob,

There's a lot of common sense in the quote, "Never bite the hand that feeds you."

Had it gone the other way, I'd have come up with the phrase: "You always hurt the ones you love."

Either way - I win! :D

BTW, if CV doesn't have a stall where do we all meet?

Bob's Place :D

Chirpy,

DVdoctor's stand - 152 - where I'll be throughout the show.

Charles,

Nearly right:
www.hubbardbrook.org/research/gallery/logging_camps/Horse_hovel_near_Norse_Brook.jpg

Bob,

Where I'll be throughout Wednesday morning...

BTW, I like your 'palace' Bob, we used to live in shoebox in middle of road!

Hey Bob - I didn't know our friend Lloyd had moved into real-estate ;)

Another great deal :D

Chirpy, "you were lucky .........!"

I used to live in the middle of a lake....

I used to live in Hull...

I win!! I lived in NEASDEN!!

You call that living?

;)

I win I live with my wife.

Anon.

I used to live in Musselburgh

100 messages in the thread - yippee!

I used to live in Queens.

Folks, this was quite a serious thread at one time.

Might be nice if it became one again and we left this sort of banter for the Chatter forum (yes, I know I'm guilty too).

Oh, but if you really want quiet, there is one set of forums I can think of that is deathly quiet.

Bob C

You can not be cirrus?

How Deep is your love? ;)

Message to Mike (busbyvideo) who started this thread: Do you still think it's quiet here since the mag stopped?

OK. So its not quiet here.

But you didnt have to rub it in over 100 times :)

busbyvideo (and others),

Please, I wanted this thread to be serious - stop making me laugh!

Bob

Wouldn't like to think that this thread gets forgotten too early, hence the freshen-up posting now.

Bob C

These are quite good Bob :D

I think I know somewhere that IS quiet... and I think perhaps Bob knows where I mean too!

CV

Gone but not forgotten.

I CAN SHOUT A BIT IF YOU WANT SOME NOISE.