On the 5th December last I posted the following mail for members technical responses:-
“I seem to be seeing several members placing queries with regard to MSPro. 6. & Audio sync. Problems. I’ve just upgraded from 5.2 to V6.0, but retained older versions on the hard drive…..[Just in case!] Set up is AMD Athlone 600. Fast AV Master, with the latest Fast/Dazzle driver patches installed for Power Play review. Latest MSPro. Patches also installed.
Project settings :-
PAL (25 fps)
Field Order A
Overlay track(s):3
Microsoft AVI Files
24 Bits, 768 x 576, 25 fps
FAST AV Master MJPEG Codec (32)
Interleave audio for every 1 frames
75% Quality
44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo PCM
Packed Audio data every 1 Frame
Every time I make alterations to my edite on the time line, then render, followed by power play preview, the audio sync. Appears to vary, very slightly. More puzzling: I have allowed the sound track to exceed the visual by about 4 secs, on the overall end of the project, prior to fading out to finish the audio track & the project. When rendered & previewed the sound track fades & cuts about 2 – 3 secs prior to the end visual titles. In short I’m not getting matching audio sync to audio track visual?????? Very weird. I have been using MSPro. For several years now, version 5.0 to 5.2 & now 6.0. I wonder if this audio problem relates to the fact that MSPro 6. does seem to be developed with a bias toward digital requirements [understandably], & that perhaps there is a genuine problem in getting this version to work flawless using audio settings:-
Interleave audio for every 1 frames.
44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo PCM
Packed Audio data every 1 Frame
Have any other users of AV Master & MSPro. Experienced similar problems, or is my experience unique?
Replies please to “Uncle Bob Crabtreeâ€, written on the back of £100 Argos Christmas Vouchers………..you wish Robert!
Seriously, any comments gratefully received.
Brian [magiclantern]] Glanville.
I received back the following response from Fast Technical:-
“In your query you that say you have 'the latest Fast/Dazzle driver patches installed for Power Play review.'
With Mediastudio 6.0 you should not have any Power Play patches installed.
You should only install this software in this order:
1) MediaStudio 6.0.
2) The Mediastudio 6.0 patch from Ulead's website.
3) The version of AV Master 2.5 which is specifically for Mediastudio 6.0 (download from [url=http://www.dazzle-europe.com).]www.dazzle-europe.com).[/url] Do not install any Power Play patches.
FAST UK Technical Support
[This message has been edited by FAST (edited 06 December 2000).]â€
First of all I can confirm that my system is loaded per Fast’s Technical installation instructions above. I can also state categorically, that following exhaustive testing over the Christmas break, based upon two separate editing projects, that it appears almost certain that Fast Capture version 2.5, build 24, is not fully compatible with Media Studio 6.02.
A series of holiday clips were played from a SVHS JVC unit & captured faultlessly using Fast 2.5 build 24. On re play the captured clips were good quality at 8:1 compression, & the sound track perfectly in sync. These clips were then inserted into the time line of Media Studio Pro 6.02: the project retaining identical project settings to the original capture settings:-
PAL (25 fps)
Field Order A
Overlay track(s):3
Microsoft AVI Files
24 Bits, 768 x 576, 25 fps
FAST AV Master MJPEG Codec (32)
Interleave audio for every 1 frames
75% Quality
44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo PCM
Packed Audio data every 1 Frame
The Fast Power Play is available, & preview is processed normally.
On Playback for preview, or to tape, the problems then manifest themselves. The longer the preview setting i.e. the further the sound track in power play preview, then the further out of sync is the edit! After a 30 min preview the sound track will be as much as 3 secs. Out of sync. The sound track visual on the audio A. or B. time line matches perfectly to the video frame on the matching time line display, yet in Power Play: way out of sync every time! If a short preview is selected: no problem as sound syncs. to visual perfectly. Interesting point:- If power Play version 2.5 build 24 is deleted, & I revert back to M.S. Pro V.5.2 Power Play 2.5 build 19, & rebuild the project from scratch: [And what a pain in the sit-me-down this is] guess what? Perfect Visual & perfect in sync. Sound!!! Once gray haired old coot, now hairless, raving loony version!!!
This. Therefore, seems to indicate to me that the ‘plug in’ Power Play module build 24 is simply not fully compatible in preview, with Media Studio 6.02, & it would simply be a deal less stressing, if I used Media Studio’s 6.02 own capture prog. using Microsoft VFW. drivers? It all seems to be rather self defeating, as I sit back & review the results, or rather lack of results, achieved! I’ve checked out the hard drive read & write speeds, as I am also getting a large no. of dropped frames, but only when in preview mode: no problem with the drives they work perfectly under Fast build 19 for MS. Pro 5.2.
Well, I’ve chucked this one in the old melting pot, out of frustration & technical interest. Consider: how many members out there, currently edit using AV. Master, & who may be considering MS Pro 6.02 as either an upgrade from earlier versions, or as a new editing Softwear tool!!!!!!!!
Think long & hard. An expensive problem to have purchased me thinks!!!!!!
…………. Unless someone else knows different?
Brian –‘magiclantern’- Glanville.
Brian - you do seem to be having a hard time here.
First, I would say it's nothing to do with video capture. Whether you use Fast Capture or MSP I think you will get the same problem. As you say, the captured files themselves replay fine.
Do you get this problem _only_ when playing from the timeline? What happens if you create an AVI (Create Video) from your project - does this have audio in sync. or not? Obviously you are limited to the duration of a 2GB file.
I used the AVM with MSP 6 for quite a while (I've now switched to DV) and never ran into this, but I've always avoided timeline playback. I feel much safer creating a complete AVI, and I only used it for short items so the 2GB limit wasn't a problem.
You should be able to write a longer project into several AVIs and then play them seamlessly in Fast Capture, which I think is a better tool for playing AVIs than MSP anyway.
HTH
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Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial
Hi Richard,
Thanks for coming back on the Fast AVM – MSPro. 6.0 sound problem. Re. Your suggestion regarding building an avi. file from the file create option direct onto the hard drive. Sorry chum, already tried that; as they say “been there & got the T. shirtâ€! The original captured files using Fast capture are perfectly in sync. sound. If you drop these clips into the time line & then use the “create video†option, you end up with an avi. file which contains all of the same problems seen when previewing with Power Play. To me the attraction of the Fast Plug-in Power Play module, was that you were then able to tape direct from the time line in virtual perfect repro. This also got around the 2Gig. Problem whilst at the same time reduced down the creating of a video to tape by around a third of the time taken if you were first going to “create video†& then dump to tape.
As I understand the situation, the “create video†option makes use of the power play smart render temp files to create the final avi. file. If these temp preview files contain errors, then surely then these errors will be duplicated onto the final created avi? i.e. if you have problems & errors in power play review, I think that you are going to see them re-occur again in the finished avi.
The great pity of this situation is that I do genuinely prefer the new twin monitor layout of MS Pro 6.02. & having used various editions of the prog. for over 3 years, I shall stick with it. I think it to be an extremely user friendly, professional piece of softwear. As far as I’m aware I cannot take the DVP. File from my current project & insert it into MS Pro. 5.2: the two versions are not compatible. This, therefore, leaves me with a 40 min dvp. In MS Pro 6.02: completely edited vision & sound, & no way of producing a clean, accurate, in sync. Final avi.! What a nightmare! I do think that on this particular occasion I have reached a “lock out†position.
I might try converting the existing time line edit into a different sound/vision format, & then create a final avi. This will be extremely time consuming to re-render the entire project, but might just get me away from the sound sync., dropped frame problems that I am currently experiencing using the AVM. Codec. Any how thanks for the input. I’ll probably browse on this one for days! If you have any further thoughts I would be interested to hear them, in the meantime P.O.R. [press on regardless]. I’ll advise if I achieve any progress on this one.
By the way a Happy New Year to you & yours, & thanks for your interest.
Brian ‘magiclantern’ Glanville
Brian
I admire your persistence! You're right in that MSP 6 projects won't convert back to 5.2, although MSP 6 can open and "upgrade" a version 5 project.
Is your MSP version 6.0, with the patch applied after? If so you might try removing it and re-installing 6.0 without the patch. Many of the audio changes were introduced to address problems with DV audio, and may have adversely affected analogue audio. If you do this, also remove ulead32.ini from the Windows directory to get a clean install of 6.0. If you leave it, it will contain configuration changes made by the patch.
I thing you can still download patch 1 from the Ulead FTP site too. That might be better than patch 2.
There is a setting in ulead32.ini you can try playing with, which is "RenderAudio", you'll probably find it's set to 1. This forces all audio to be pre-rendered to separate files before previewing, which seems to be the only way to overcome DV problems. You can set it to 0, which stops this behaviour, and may thus affect the sync problem. However, PowerPlay under patch 2 doesn't seem to like working with RenderAudio=0, which is why I think a previous patch might work better.
A few more things for you to try!
All the best, and HNY too.
Richard
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Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial