Printing directly onto DVDs

I've been trying to source one of these printers for a while and the cheapest I've seen one is £235+ VAT but I can't remember for the life of me where

[This message has been edited by Dominic I (edited 24 August 2001).]

A friend of mine has one of the Epson printers that print onto the disk. They are basicly Epson printers that have been pulled apart and re made with the feed path stright.You put the disk in an Ally insert and that feeds into the printer. I know they have been printing on to the Verbatium DVD-R (gp)you just have to leave a bigger gap around the middle were it say's Verbatium DVD.
As far as i know these printers are about £1,000 but i will check with them today and find out some more info.
Ah... Just been on the secound site that Mooblie listed and it is there, it's a Da Vinci Pro CD/DVD Printer, and as you can see it's dropped in price and you can tell it's an Epson.This printer is very cool

quote:Originally posted by Ian at LynxDV.com:
I've been trying to source one of these printers for a while and the cheapest I've seen one is £235+ VAT but I can't remember for the life of me where

Think, Ian, think !

Yes, i agree, i would jump at the chance to get one of those, but from what i've seen there still arent any AO3 disks that are truely plain, unless ian knows otherwise

quote:Originally posted by Dominic I:
Yes, i agree, i would jump at the chance to get one of those, but from what i've seen there still arent any AO3 disks that are truely plain, unless ian knows otherwise

Dominic, what you you mean by "A03 disks..truely plain"? Surely all discs are flat? Or do you mean DVD-R/DVD-RW with a printable surface? See:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/meritline/mitdvgenpur41.html
http://www.verbatim.com/products/products.cfm?pro_id=263
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/meritline/pion47unwhit.html

[This message has been edited by mooblie (edited 06 September 2001).]

Sorry, i ment without writeing on them, the ones on your links look as though they would do, all we need know is for Ian to remember where he has seen that printer. Maybe some Hipnosis (not sure on the spelling) would work.

I have found it www.dataduplication.co.uk its called the CDP 2000 and is modeled on a Epson 640 (i think), it's not the latest in printer design but it would work. It's £295 + vat!!!

The Verbatim printable media will (so i am told by PMD)be availble from the end of the month.

Ian do you think you would be able to sell it any cheaper???

[This message has been edited by Dominic I (edited 07 September 2001).]

quote:Ian do you think you would be able to sell it any cheaper???

...or preferably the USB version, so us fruitycomputer users don't get left out...

quote:Originally posted by mooblie:
...or preferably the USB version, so us fruitycomputer users don't get left out...

Don't know, I've had enough trouble just finding out who the distributor is, maybe I'll be able to tell something in about a week.

As a postscript note to this:

(a) I can confirm that even "plain vanilla" Verbatim DVD-R (£6.40 or so in UK from www.first4media.com and others) are actually printable. Whilst they do have the "Verbatim DVD-R" etc. etc. logo on the surface, it is fairly small and the majority of the surface is smooth, matt, plain white. The Verbatim logo is small and in "matt clear" (not black) so I expect you can even print over that as well. It does also say "printable surface" on the jewel case! Any real experience here, anybody?

(b) All we need now is an affordable printer. Ian/Lnyx: any luck in finding the distributor for a cheap USB disc printer?

I assume the the converted Epson printers that do this also still do real paper - for inserts etc.?

We've had one these printers at work for a few years now. As someone stated in an earlier post, it's a converted epson. Ours is from a firm called Copytrax but I don't know if they're still around. One word of warning. It is not just a question of using "plain" CD/DVDs, they must have a special printable surface. You do not want to experience the mess made on "plain" CDs!

quote:Originally posted by John Leggett:
You do not want to experience the mess made on "plain" CDs!

I can imagine!!

Still looking for an affordable USB disc printer, that also prints on paper as well. Anyone?

quote:Originally posted by Dominic I

Ian do you think you would be able to sell it any cheaper???

It's only taken two, is that three, no, four months, but yes, the details on our printer will be on the DVD site within a couple of days, it's expected to retail for about £250 + VAT including a 48 hour new for old swap manufacturer warranty.

We're also expecting the Verbatim printable media too within the next couple of days.

The following info is all I can dig up at the moment on the printer (it's French produce!):

quote:
Prints on CDs or Paper
The ability to print on paper or CDs gives user total flexibility.

Windows or Mac compatibility
The DigiPrinter comes with either a standard centronics connector or a USB connector.

Powerful CD layout software included
CD Design Creator software for Windows is included with the DigiPrinter. This powerful graphics layout program is preconfigured to support the DigiPrinter and includes many sample templates.

Individual Ink Jet cartridges
The S400 engine comes with single color ink jet cartridges so you don't have to worry about using too much of a particular color.

True 4 color (CMYK), 1440 x 720 dpi

Sorry Bob, but they did ask

BTW, it's not the CDP one, it's based on a Canon Inkjet printer.

[This message has been edited by Ian at LynxDV.com (edited 03 December 2001).]

Ian, is this company "Odixion"?

I recall, in my earlier digging, coming across this French company, based on a Canon S600/400(?) printer, with USB, but...at the time...no Mac drivers.

Good printer base, if the plan vanilla S600 or 400 reviews are anything to go by.

USB driver is sorted now? Definitely works with a Mac? ..with DVDs? Where do I sign?

Yes, it's the Oxidion DigiPrinter (based on a Canon S400) and it has a USB port.

Here's what the instructions say about MAC's,

1. Switch off Printer & computer
2. Switch on Computer.
3. When the Mac desktop screen is displayed, plug in the Printer.
4. Switch on the Printer
5. A message appears : Click OK
6. Insert the BJ Printer setup CD-Rom
7. dc printer drive folder
8. dc the Language folder
9. dc the BJ Installer icon
10. Read carefully the license blah blah blah and click Accept.
11. Click Install
12. Restart

Selection of Printer Drive
1. Select Choosre (sic) in apple Menu
2. Click on the S400 icon and check everything is hunky dory (ian trunk of "check Printer")
3. Close the Window (carefully as not to break the glass - another Ian trunk)

It says nothing of the "CD Design Creator" which is included for Windows, so i'd assume you're stuck with using a Mac graphics prog and juggling with the layout.

If you want, give me a call and bring down da Mac and we'll hook it up and see what it does

------------------
Cheers
Ian

P.S. Price is £289.95 + £9.40 delivery (inc. VAT) - still not on site though....

www.LynxDV.com

[This message has been edited by Ian at LynxDV.com (edited 07 December 2001).]

Is it correct that when printing on the disks you have to spray them with a coating to stop the ink rubbing off?

------------------
All the best
Dave
Dave Knowles Films
Southampton - uk

Not too sure about that Dave.

Are you talking about the same stuff you spray on chalk/pastel pictures to stop them running?

I think perhaps it's a yes, the discs don't seem to like black ink too much, but colour if fine.

Maybe John can answer this?

------------------
Cheers
Ian

www.LynxDV.com

Interesting product.

Here is their Press Release dated 19th March 2001:

"Odixion launches the first universal paper and CD printer at less than 300€.

The DigiPrinter® Universal, developed around CANON technology, is the first ink-jet printer to provide the ability to print directly onto the surface of a Printable CD. The DigiPrinter® can also be used as a conventional inkjet printer for printing onto medium such as paper, photo paper, greeting cards and business cards. Perfect for personalizing the top surface of a CD with professional quality images, the DigiPrinter® Universal delivers high quality colour printing at 1440 dpi. Fast print speeds are possible through a choice of two interfaces; parallel and USB, and it is designed to be compatible with Mac OS® and Microsoft Windows®. It is bundled with CD label creation software, CD Design Creator (English, French, Italian, German Spanish versions).

The DigiPrinter® Universal will be available from the end of March 2001 at the recommended retail price of 300€.

The CD top surface printing is possible thanks to the “Printable” CD, which is now being produced by a number of major manufacturers. The “Printable” CD has a special surface, silver or white, dedicated to direct printing. This results in exceptional print quality.

It has been specially designed to enable text, logos, graphics and also high-resolution photo printing.

A list of distributors and resellers can be found on the web site - www.odixion.com."
http://www.odixion.fr/uk/produits/digiprinter.html

From their Technical Specifications, supported operating systems are:
Windows 95/98/2000/ME, Win NT4.0, Mac 8.1 or later

Dave

Yes - you do have to spray the printed disks with fixer when using an inkjet based printer, this may change as new inks get developed for printing on CD/DVD's.

------------------
Dave Farrants
Producer/Editor
Fox Video Productions

Hi,

Two things we still don't seem to have mentioned a source of printable DVD disks or have I missed it?
The other thing is what is the fixer you have to spray them with and is it easily available?

------------------
All the best
Dave
Dave Knowles Films
Southampton - uk

"Standard" Verbatim DVD-Rs have a mainly matt white surface with only a small Verbatim ID on them (also in matt, but silver) and say "printable" surface.

Will they do?

And also, as I said earlier, see: Mitsui, Verbatim (Purpose made) and Pioneer.

I think the fixative is the standard fixer you get from art shops, will ask my replicator what it is they use.

Just beta tested some new DVD printable blanks from a UK company called 24-7, who should be releasing a new DVD soon - will post more when I get it.

------------------
Dave Farrants
Producer/Editor
Fox Video Productions

quote:Originally posted by Dave Knowles:
Hi,

Two things we still don't seem to have mentioned a source of printable DVD disks or have I missed it?
The other thing is what is the fixer you have to spray them with and is it easily available?

Talk to me....

We do a lot of stuff that is not listed on our sites.

The Odixion printer is working quiet nicely on Verbatim and Pioneer inkjet printable media.

I will get details of the printers and media online soon.

------------------
Cheers
Ian

www.LynxDV.com

Now I see in another thread from Motionwerk :

"New Epsons (950 and 2100) can print directly onto CD and DVD discs."

Anybody seen or tried one yet?

Seen the 950 in action at the recent IPEX show at the NEC.

I have a CD that was printed on the stand. The adaptor needed is supplied as standard with the Epson Photo 950 which is due to be released any day now. Also does full edge to edge printing and can handle media upto 2.5mm thick.

The printing onto CD/DVD was simply great.

Epson Stylus Photo 950 £281.00 ex £330.17inc www.dabs.com

The Matisse printer has been available for a while although I have not tried it. www.riverproaudio.co.uk/acatalog/Matisse.htm

[This message has been edited by Mahesh (edited 03 May 2002).]

Calling Mr.C!

I know CV doesn't usually do head-to-head comparative reviews, but this is a great case of CRYING OUT for one - the "print-direct-onto-DVD" inkjet printers....

Can you persuade someone to lend you these new ones?

I'm sure I'm not the only one here with cash waiting.

I have just bought the Mattise Gold which is really an Epson C60. Seems to be a bit of a learning curve. Although sold as a CD printing unit Copytrax the people who have modded it don't supply it ready to go. Will report.

If someone draws up a list of makes and models, I'll see what I can do.

Bob C

quote:Originally posted by mooblie:
Calling Mr.C!

I know CV doesn't usually do head-to-head comparative reviews, but this is a great case of CRYING OUT for one - the "print-direct-onto-DVD" inkjet printers....

Can you persuade someone to lend you these new ones?

I'm sure I'm not the only one here with cash waiting.

Not sure if these are all still currently available, but the links still work....

Primera Signature IV
Matisse Gold and Da Vinci Pro
Odixion Digiprinter
Epson 950 (available from Lynx too, of course)
Epson 2100 - no links yet!!

HTH

quote:Originally posted by bcrabtree:
If someone draws up a list of makes and models, I'll see what I can do.

Bob C

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knows whether the new epson 950 will print to the edge of the printable surface of cds/dvds? I would hate for my discs to have a white band around the outside!

If the epson doesnt do it... any suggestions on another printer to do this?

PS.Currently, Im sticking labels onto DVD's (SHOCK!!), with no problems at all!

Thanks,

Rish

The original post asked about printing in a normal printer.... So does anyone know, in theory, could any printer with a straight through paper path print on discs??

Obviously you would need an adaptor to hold and the disc and allow the printer to feed it. (Do any of the makers of CD printers sell these as spare parts for their printers??)

I have a HP CP1700 which does have a straight through printing path from the rear manual feed, but I don't fancy breaking it with a CD!!! But would love to try printing onto a CD/DVD...

Any ideas.

Thanks

Mike

Mike

I don't think any printers have such a useful accessory - but I expect that now that Epson have offered it as standard, others will follow.

I once bought a CD-ROM from eBay which described "how to DIY modify" Epson and Canon printers, and how to make a solid carrier, to allow direct disc printing. Involved hacksaws on the rear casing and microswitch mods - all "do-able", but only on an ex-warranty expendable printer. I never actually attempted it - I was worried more about the printer driver - printing on a hard, minimally absorbent surface and the ink delivery, edges, and head clearance/damage etc etc.....so I chickened out!

I have to admit though, I cracked the other day and ordered a new Epson 950 - will post the results here when I get it.

The solid carrier you talk about is probably the only bit REALLY neccessary with a straight through printer path printer.

You can adjust ink density in the HP print driver already.

no hacksawing or modification of the actual printer should be neccessary in my mind... just the manufacture of a "solid carrier".

Did the carrier look easy to make in your instructions?

Thanks

Mike

Dear Mick,

What is the "gap" inbetween the paperpath of your printer ?
Even if you manage to make up a "mock" runner for the CD/DVD would it not just rip your print heads to pieces or damage the roller mechanism ?

CD'S/DVD media are thicker than Paper/Card.

I had an Oxidion Printer that printed both paper and CD/DVD media.
But had a small lever on the side which you "raised/Lowered" this moved the different media to stop this type of problem happening.

Kind regards

[This message has been edited by Stuart B-M (edited 15 May 2002).]

Don't forget either that you also have to finish an Inkjet printed discs with a spray, and you have to do this in a 100% dust free enviroment, which is a pain, ones spec of dust and the disc look bloody awful

As an update on the Espon, ETA is JUNE!!

We've had them on order for about 3 weeks and the price is changing daily, it's getting a bit silly.

From what I've been told this is standard practice for Epson, they launch a printer, show how brilliant it is, and the initial batch is in such small numbers (20) that they have gone months in advance, they then hold off producing in mass numbers until they have a large number of back orders, which although is good business sense (no stock sitting around if the batch is all pre-sold), it's of no help to any of us!

quote:Originally posted by mdoragh:
Did the carrier look easy to make in your instructions?

Mike, The "instructions" just suggested cutting it from thick card - the instructions mainly concentrated on the mods to the printer itself.

My Epson 950 arrived yesterday, I am setting it up now, and will report soon....(who knows? maybe even with pictures!)

I can confirm it has seven separate ink tanks - two blacK, C, M, Y, lt.C, and lt.M, and is bl**dy enormous - for a printer that is 520mm wide, I would expect it to be A3, not merely A4. Never seen so many clip-on bits and pieces - paper cutter, roll holders, two other unknown feeders/catchers, disc carrier (with adapter for 8cm disks, too but circular only). A USB cable and a printed manual would have been nice, but it did include a blank (printable) CD-R ...maybe I'm just out of touch with modern printer practice?

As this post is now so long it takes ages to load from an ordinary PO modem line, can it be split into another bit/bits?
Thanks
Looking forward to the report on the 950. Also please include a report on its print quality on old fashioned paper.

someone must be a mind reader!

someone must be a mind reader!

Ooh look, a mooblie! (Sorry, old joke, which won't mean much to many people here any more.)

OK, I got my new Epson Stylus Photo 950 printing onto discs this weekend, and although in NO WAY a comprehensive review, these are just my very first impressions about disc printing (which is probably what most people are interested in):

Before I begin, I should point out: I have never had a disc printer before, unlike others here, so it's not really even a comparitive or comprehensive review. I used to use photoglossy paper PressIT labels printed on an Epson Stylus Photo 875DC (which of course, has different ink cartidges. )

GEOMETRY
Dics printing takes a while to set up in respect of its geometry - but only once. There is a bundled disc printing application (for Mac and Windows) but it only imports JPGs as backgrounds and superimposes text with relatively limited effects. I was initially worried that you HAD to use this, but not so. So, I re-jigged the PageMaker files that I used to use when printing on labels, to ensure the following were adjusted appropriately:

Position
- the vertical and horzontal offset of the disc centre from the top and left edges of the holder are adjusted to take account of the plastic holder provided. The disc centre turned out for me to be 75.5mm from left and 67.5mm from top of carrier.

Masking
- equally important - masking. Unlike precut labels, which can be printed to "bleed' into the surround and centre with gay abandon, this is NOT a good idea here, as you will end up with a very messy carrier, covered in ink. I did this by ensuring there was a correctly sized circle in the centre, filled with white and no edge stroke, as the topmost layer, to blank the centre hole. On the Verbatim DVD-R printable discs I used, this had to be 44mm diameter. I also had to include a large empty circle to blank the outer edges - this was 170mm, and empty (to allow my label graphics to show through, obviously) with a line stroke of 72points (this is how it is defined in PageMaker) and in reverse, giving a "white" doughnut to mask the outer edges of the disc correctly. Again, with the Verbatim DVD-R, this gives the necessary 117mm diameter image. Taken together, this all ensures NO ink on the carrier at all.

Epson provide, in addition to the disc carrier and detachable feeder which feeds the carrier in from the FRONT, a "card" disc to experiment with setup. Considering it's just a piece of cardboard, more than ONE would have been nice.... Anyway, with this single card disc, I managed to determine that this positioning and masking was OK, and allowed me to proceed to print at real DVD label, including photographs.

COLOURATION
This is going to take longer to get right. The image is nothing like as saturated or bright as when printing on photo glossy paper, and there is obviously still much room for tweaking. I suppose it reflects the thin, hard, minimally absorbent, matt white surface of the disc. Definition is obviously fine, with 2880dpi printing, but the contrast, brightnesss and saturation will need further playing with. My FIRST attempt has a photographic image that is very cold and desaturated compared to the photoglossy paper labels I used to print. The ink seemed to dry in minutes, not 24 hours, as Epson recommends, and although obviously likely to pick up marks (being a matt surface) it seems so far resilient to handling. Ian@Lynx suggested it is "de rigeur" to spray a varnish coating, and maybe that also improves the colouration and richness? Ian?

I hope that those of you already familiar with printing direct onto discs can give us some pointers about surfaces, saturation and how to obtain the best photo images?

Also - which brands of printable blanks are best? If you click on the thumbnail, you will see a larger image of my first experimental result, where the Verbatim "hologram-like" lettering gives a pleasing effect - but it does show up through the printed image, and I would prefer wholly blank discs to print on. The disc is quite usable - even presentable commercially I feel - but it could still do with further improvement as I learn the foibles of this process.

All help and experience from others gratefully received. C'mon - post here with your experience! ...

Dear Mooblie, can tell you that mitsui inkjet printable media have the "plain" white face that you are looking for.

Kindest regards

quote:Originally posted by mooblie:

Ian@Lynx suggested it is "de rigeur" to spray a varnish coating, and maybe that also improves the colouration and richness? Ian?

Don't think so, not on Verbatim anyway, if you spray thickly, it gives the disc a nice gloss finish, or if you spray thinly, it gives a nice matt finish.

As Stuart says the Mitsui discs have a totally plain surface just like a piece of paper, but they do have "Mitsui Inkjet Printable" printed around the centre spool (the clear section in the middle ) this can be removed with a bit of tank tape, or something really sticky

Dear Ian,

Appreciate you used to sell these, do you happen to sell these anymore ?
And am i right in thinking that they are also x2 certifed ?

Kind regards

Thanks, Stuart - I must get some Mitsuis - not tried them before. Where do you get yours? (They're not the ones you won in a magazine competition (which shall remain nameless ), are they?

PS: Here is a thumbnail (enlarge by clicking), showing a more direct comparison between my printing direct onto disk (albeit my first attempt) and a photoglossy paper label.

This picture of the discs was taken in tungsten lighting, but it illustrates the difference in warmth, saturation, etc.

quote:Originally posted by Stuart B-M:
Dear Ian,

Appreciate you used to sell these, do you happen to sell these anymore ?
And am i right in thinking that they are also x2 certifed ?

Kind regards

Verbatim - No (becuase the print shows through, defeating the object)
Mitsui - Yes

Both are x2.

Here's what I'm talking about with the Mitsui's - click to enlarge.

You know what these were taken with Stuart

Mitsui Logo in middle of disc:

Complete disc:

[This message has been edited by Ian at LynxDV.com (edited 20 May 2002).]

Dear Mooblie,

The "nameless" one's that i was most fortunate to win were the "Gold top" ones.
But still a Very pleasant addition and much appreciated.

The first Mitsui Inkjet printable one's i managed to buy were from www.lynxdv.com i went after these because of the fact they do not have "bleed through" of a name as the label is "Blank".
Have also found these to be very compatable.

Your shots look great first attempt they look wonderful.

Dear Ian thanks for adding the reply, will be getting some more Mitsui Brand soon.
Very nice close up of the illustration.

Thats why i prefer these, at least they are not on the printable surface.

Kindest regards all.

Thanks Mooblie for the tips...

I will try a piece of thick card through it to see if it can cope with the thickness. If it succeeds, then there is no reason why it shouldn't cope with a CD in the middle of the said piece of card... :O)

I will obviously have to double and triple check that the paper path is totally straight... as nearly straight through for card... and nearly straight through for CD are different. Card will bend slightly.... CD will snap!

Thanks for the thoughts.

Mike

Hey Mooblie

Hey Mooblie - have you adjusted the printer
settings for the Epson 950.
If you've done any tests - I'd love to know
which is the optimum setting.
Great initial review - looking forward to more.

Tower

Hi, Tower (ha ha!)

Have a look at this thread.

It picked up the baton from here....

As I have posted before I am the happy owner of the Epson 2100, the big brother of the 950, and have had no problems making prints on the correct disks, once I found out thet the preset for CDs gave a poor print on the disk and replaced it with the matt paper preset and all was well.
The disk comes out of the printer almost perfect but I leave it for a few hours and then one is able to rub quite heavily on the surface before causing scratch damge - no fixative used!!
It also prints to the inside and outside edges of the disk - there are variable controls to allow for this.
I hope this clears up a lot of the problems that people are anticipating.
The only problem is when suitable disks are in stock at Lynx!!

Here in the USA, the Epson Stylus Photo 900 is available. It will print directly on one CD/DVD at a time, and it's selling for as little as $159.

So what happened to this thread between 23:40pm on 20th May 2002 and 21:22pm on 20th May 2003?

A whole year just flew past - amazing!

Obviously Tower was searching the fora, and came across something that just happened to be within minutes of being exactly one year old. Spooky, or what?