I have a 2hr video which I want to get onto one disc. Usually I just burn at my usual 6000 variable, then put it through DVD Shrink. I read somewhere that DVDS doesn't re-encode to fit to the disc capacity, but compresses the .mpg instead.
So, is it better to encode to the right level in the first place? If so, what should the bit rate be for 2hrs worth of .MPG with a DD stereo track?
I might add that the original footage is from HDV, so is pretty good quality wise.
>To shrink or not?
Not.
You maintain quality all through the process.
Why throw it away at the last step.
Cost of extra DVD is a few pennies more and double cases are available.
Viewer will be glad of break (ice cream, popcorn) when changing over.
If the run is to be in the hundreds/thousands with fine margin on retail price my view may differ.
Yes, always better to encode to the right level in the first place. When we say 'encode' in this instance, what we're really meaning is 'what can we jettison?'
Must admit that for 2hrs I would normally put onto 2 discs. If I'm only slightly oversize, then I use DVDS. But, I've seen several posts whereby people are getting 2hrs on a disc "at good quality" (according to them anyway). As I'm now starting with HDV rather than DV, I was wondering if the 'higher starting point' might make a difference?
Hi there
Rather than go to two disks we've been using dual layer DVD for our promotional disks.. Works very well and you can encode at best quality and have loads of space to play with...
Regards
Gareth
1hr 58min @5.5mbr variable with un-compressed sound or 2hr 18min with stereo, not had any complaints, yet!
Interesting.
Baz, but can you see a difference in the finished article?
Gareth, what programme do you use for the dual layer discs? Previous posters have all had major problems with the layer change.
Any replies re what your DVD authoring programme is Gareth?
I can see a difference between 5.5Mbps and 6.0, but 5.5 is OK for most purposes. Using 2-pass VBR, rather than CBR, helps (if your encoder offers it). I often use 5.7, which gives about 100 minutes. Quality starts to drop off noticeably below 5.5, though.
As Barry mentions, using highest-rate MP3 audio instead of uncompressed will buy you quite a few extra minutes. No one will notice on anything other than true HiFi audio. In fact, HDV cameras record audio in 384 bps MP3 internally anyway, so leave it like that all the way through the process and it might even sound a slightly better than using PCM on the disc (less transcoding).
HTH
Thanks for the reply Steamage, Gareth seems to have gone all shy. :confused: I've not used PCM on a DVD before - I usually go for DD stereo. At my usual 6000 variable I get around 90 95 mins which is fine for most discs. Just wondering if things had improved with the use of HDV as a starting point now. And authoring to dual layer would definitely be a boon. Looking around the net though, blowed if I can find anyone doing it successfully!
I've just put 2 hrs 23 mins onto a DVD-R using a CBR of 4 mbps. Most of it was spot-lit people standing at a podium talking, but I must say I'm pretty impressed with what it looks like (Storm hardware encoder).
Arthur, Ive used IMGburn to make quite a lot of dual layer DVD`s. Means you have to make an ISO image first to burn but it does give you the option of setting the layer break. This can cause some problems if a chapter poiint is close to the layer break in that it can be missed if you step backwards through these. On at least two I split the video into two files, one on each layer, and this stops this problem. Ive passed these on to some friends and have not had any returned yet. In some instances I have compiled 6 hours of VHS based content onto one single DVD. Great way of reclaiming shelf space.
Now, like you, am experimenting with BD. Not got as far as burning dual layer yet as it would seem I can get upto 1hr 45m on one single disk.
Dougie Leaver
So, if you split into two files - same as if using two single layer discs - the layer change will be exactly between the two? Cool! So you could then have a 1 sec fade to black at the end of the first, and a 1 sec fade up at the start of the second? Sounds perfect to me.
Arthur, yes, you can set the layer break to have the first set of VOB`s on one layer and the next on the second. Both sets of VOB`s must be less than approximastely 4Gigs otherwise they will not fit. IMGburn gives you control of the break point but will steer you in the right direction if it thinks you are not getting it right. I author in DVDArchitect and then use IMGburn to create the ISO image and then again to burn that to DVD. I would suggest using DVD+R as the only coaster I had was with a DVD-R.
I have not had any problems with playing through the layer break on these DVD`s. Only on the one where a chapter point was within a few seconds of the end of a layer and it missed that chapter when stepping back. Now try and avoid this by keeping chapter points away from the layer break where possible.
Dougie Leaver
I may give that a shot Dougie. I also use DVDA. Why do you use imgburn and not DVDA to create the iso? If you're creating the video-ts and audio-ts folders with DVDA, why not create the iso at the same time?
Edit: 'Cos that'll be only one file?
Agh !. Cos I was using DVDA 3 then and it did not work on dual layer. No way that I could find to set the layer break. Have DVDA 5 but not tried with that yet. Will have to see if it does alow you to set the layer break.
Dougie Leaver
Checking through the help file in DVDA 5, it tells you that you can choose a layer break, or let it do it for you. Can't see anywhere in preferences though that you set the project up as dual-layer. Where are you getting your DL discs from Dougie? Last - but not least. I need to find out if either of my burners actually burns dual layer!! :)
Ive been using Verbatim DVD+R printables from SVP but the last lot came from my local computer shop and were non printable. Ive just checked DVDA 5 and apparently the layer break is set in prepare menu under burn DVD. Under properties there is the option to set media and disk size. I presume if set to 8.5Gig it will revert to dual layer. Under mastering there is an option to set layers and sides. Non of these will give me the option for setting the layer break when preparing. Another reason to keep using IMGburn !.
Dougie
Long time no post! :) I've finally got around to trying this out. Downloaded the free burn express version, but it looks like this can't create an ISO. Am I right?
Arthur, just spotted this posting. Express seems to be a DATA burning program. Its not ImgBurn. Look at the bottom of the page under the free AVS Converter (!) there is a news banner. There it says ImgBurn 2.4.2.0 is released. There is a download button at the bottom of this.
Burn Expresws looks quite good though. The ability to create and burn data disks without recourse to Nero is good. I need a program to backup some AVI`s and photo`s to BluRay disk. May give it a try.
Dougie
Having had difficulty burning short DVD`s with Nero, I had a look at the above. It seems to work very well, and do all that Nero does and it`s free.
Oh well, at least I've stumbled on something useful. :o
OK, just to check; I author with DVDA as normal - which will give me a set of VOBs way too big for a single layer disc. I then import those VOBs into IMGburn to create an ISO. Somewhere during this process, it'll create a layer break, which I can move if I wish? I then use IMGburn to burn the ISO to a DL disc. As simple as that?
Yes, as simple as that. It will ask you to set the layer break from the vobs provided. There will be a list of possible points, some green for good. I usually just pick one close to the middle of the video and let it get on with it. On odd occasions it will not let you continue. This is usually because the vob`s will not fit onto either layer without one being across the layer break. Ive only had one like this and just remade the vob`s at a slightly lower bit rate so they would fit.
I have not tried the latest creation of DVDA as I still can find no way to set this layer break.
Dougie Leaver
Being buzzed by a Dakota !!!! Sounds fantastic !!!!
All of the layer breaks (3) it's picked are actual chapter points. All marked as "Average". Is there any way to input your own time for a layer break?
It should be showing you three VOB files. Check the file names. It uses the start of or end of the VOB files for the break. Never realy checked if its the start or end !. As far as I know it does not pick chapter points, but if there are three at the beginning or or end of a VOB file then it may appear to be useing these.
Dougie
Arther i can get 2 hours on a disk, you may need to adjust the VBR settings to achieve I have a avg of 6Mbs with the min at 192k, also use AC3 if your not already, also do a two pass to improve the encode.
I can send you the template if you mail me...
Z, current project is well over 2 hours (Full Catholic ceremony that the parents want all of).
I've burnt 3 coasters so far. 2 on my editing PC stopped about half way. "invalid address for write". And 1 on my laptop at grrrrrrrrr 99%! Same error message. Looks like back to 2 disc sets for a while 'til I get more time to play with this. Think I'll buy a new drive. The latest Pioneer DL burner is less than 20 quid. :)
could also try render out as AVI, then use DVD to fit to disc.............?
Use DVD-RW disks Arthur I always do on the first cut, just in case of problems or last minute edits.
I used to do that Z, but the price of a blank DVD being so low now, and RW's taking so long to burn. I stopped. I'm quite happy producing 2 discs to keep the pic quality up as high as possible, but I'll still have another go at DLs a bit later. (Just to see if I 'can' really. :) )
Arther i can get 2 hours on a disk, you may need to adjust the VBR settings to achieve I have a avg of 6Mbs with the min at 192k, also use AC3 if your not already, also do a two pass to improve the encode.I can send you the template if you mail me...
hello Cheema, may i humbly ask if you can also send me the template as well. If you dont mind.
Thank you in advance,
oku
Hi from OZ...Just an idea on what I do to get the last possible Kb onto a single DVD
Ive used this method for the last 5 years. It may seem pedantic but its deadly accurate
1. Make your final movie in (as I do) Prem 1.5 (CS4 is waiting in the wings for the Canon 5 d Mark2) and save as a moviexxx.avi
2. Import this file into Canopus Procoder 1.5.
3. See what the duration is and say its 103minutes....you do a bit of fancy math
.....Guess at a bit rate say for example say 5200 (total bit rate [vid and audio]
.....Divide 5200 by 8 and x by 60 = 39,000 and x by the minutes (103) and thats 4,017,000
Now a DVD holds 4.430 gigs (I think)
4. So thats too low a bit rate, so do the math again. 5400 = 5400div8 x 60 x103 = 4,171 500
5. Try 5600 = 5600 div 8 x 60 = 42,00 x 103 = 4,326,000
6. try 5750 = 5750 -: 8 x60 x 103 = 4,441,875
7 get the piccy? write down the values you get on a chart on the wall for quick reference
OK now in procoder the TOTAL bit rate is determined by the Video bit rate down the bottom. Put in a value there which is say 400 kb less than 5750..I put 5380 and watch the total bit rate change at the top
8. Youve got to set the STREAM TYPE to MPEG2 Program Stream (NOT MPEG2 and WAVE flie)
9. Set High speed or high quality or what ever you want
10. The VR 1 or 2 pass or single Pass you choose
11. hit the go button
12 THEN I use DVDws2 and set chapters etc in there and tell it go burn and POOF...Using the magic woofle dust, Sooty has created a new DVD.
Sound complex but it only takes 6 weeks to get the hang of it
Saves loads of guess work and with one computer doing that the other can be creating the DVD face art work ready for your wonderful Canon ip 4500 with CISS tanks to print
Cooool huh
Anyone need further instructions please ask here or e me direct and I'll do a screen grab
philmac@netspace.net.au
acupuncturedvds.com
Cheers
Phil
I've read it once Phil. I'll come back to it for another read when my head stops spinning. :D Thanks for posting the info.
Does Phil's method hold any adantages over the bit-rate calculator here:
http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm
Good link Tom,
this'll be going into favourites,
thanks
John
John D johnross93.freeserve.co.uk
The downloadable version is available here:-
Phil's method is what I do in Excel, only there's never any need to guess, you just put the numbers in and it all sorts out. I haven't got a standard spreadsheet for this, it's just easy sums.
Hi Gangfrom OZ...I have just calculated the bit rate from wwwvideohelp on their example of 90 minutes
They say use 6548. This will give a file size of 4.419 gig which is close but not quite 4.38 which is max size
I reckon my method is best...It takes 30 seconds to get it right
Cheers Phil in sunny Brisbane go the Ozzys
Beware of getting it too precise. You need to be certain that you're dealing in bytes and not Mbytes or Gbytes. The dvd capacity is only approximately 4.7 10^9 bytes (which is 4,700,000,000 bytes), and not 4.7Gbytes (which is 4.7 x 2^30 = 5,046,586,573 bytes). Also, bear in mind that if you fill the disk to the absolute limit, some players can have problems with it.
The 4.7Gbyte number is actually 4,377,210,101 bytes.