Subscribers to CV will NOT receive Feb's issue - a fire destroyed the warehouse!

Sorry to hear what you say, Bob. As you say, a relief that no one was hurt.

As one of the subscribers, when can we expect copies to be available in the shops, please?

Happy Christmas!!

Tim

Thanks for keeping us posted Bob.

Hope I dont miss seeing one on the shelf - It will be my escencial Xmas reading with all that time off work.

Your idea of extending the subscription soonds a logical and generous move.

Happy Xmas

BrianR

Tim,

In theory, the Feb issues goes on sale Boxing Day (Dec 26).

However, mags are being delivered well before then - on the 19th - so it is possible (highly likely judging from past experience) that they'll go on sale soon after the 19th.

Bob C

Bob,

Thanks for posting this news; yet another example of how useful this board is.

Alan.

Dear Bob,

Thanks for the news... as above just glad that there was no serious injuries.

Will keep my eyes out for when its spotted in WH Smiths.

Kind regards.

Sorry to hear the unfortunate demise of your warehouse. Aside from the good news that no-one was hurt, having this happen at any time is a major headache, but just before the christmas period must add to the problem of trying to sort things out when deadlines before a long break don't allow for much flexibility.
Here's hoping the insurance policies have you well covered and that CV goes from strength to strength in 2003.

[This message has been edited by rbarry (edited 19 December 2002).]

In theory, the Feb issues goes on sale Boxing Day (Dec 26).

Bob C[/B]

Sorry about the fire and the loss of the CV mag. Don't get back from Aussie land till 31st Dec. I knew there would be a "rub" somewhere. Would it be possible to put the contents, even a cut down version, on a CD/DVD and sell that?

Harry

Hi Bob,
My Dec issue must have been in the warehouse.

I haven't received it yet.

I have read the November issue front to back several times, so if anyone wants to ask me any questions relating to it, go ahead.

quote:Originally posted by Fabian:
Hi Bob,
My Dec issue must have been in the warehouse.

I haven't received it yet.

I have read the November issue front to back several times, so if anyone wants to ask me any questions relating to it, go ahead.

Fabian,

You have my email (if not, it's in my profile accessible from the top of my reply here).

Please email me the name and address to which your issues should be sent, and a reminder that you've not received the Dec issue. Of course, I'd expect you to have received the Jan issue, but you make no mention of that. Tell me the score there, too, please.

Bob C

quote:Originally posted by H & M Video:
In theory, the Feb issues goes on sale Boxing Day (Dec 26).

Bob C

Sorry about the fire and the loss of the CV mag. Don't get back from Aussie land till 31st Dec. I knew there would be a "rub" somewhere. Would it be possible to put the contents, even a cut down version, on a CD/DVD and sell that?

Harry[/B]

Harry,

I'm looking into the practicalities of making the mag available in electronic form, and will report back here when I know if it's do-able.

Bob C

Bob
Accidents do happen. Your proposed way of dealing with the problem has integrity ,professionalism and good business sense.
regards

Tony Roberts

Do we know where the staff of Digital Video Made Easy were at the time?

quote:Originally posted by Richard Payne:
Do we know where the staff of Digital Video Made Easy were at the time?

More to the point, has anyone seen the new issue?

It should be out by now, but I've seen no sign of it!

Gone on holiday, perhaps?

You, boy at the back! Wells!!!

Sit down! Behave yourself!

Honest, I never spoke Sir.

quote:Originally posted by pcwells:
More to the point, has anyone seen the new issue?

It should be out by now, but I've seen no sign of it!

Gone on holiday, perhaps?

Latest issue in the shops.
Had a quick look at lunchtime while looking for new computer video ......some intersting english phrases in it , especially the article about the digital8 camcorder.(trv140 i think)

It was not in my local WHSmith yesterday, but they knew about the fire. Asked the girl to put one aside for me, suggest everyone else does as well. don't expect it to stay on the shelf too long.

Rob.

Some confusion here, I think.

Both Peter and Gary are referring to the latest issue of Digital Video Made Easy, not to CV.

Bob C

[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 20 December 2002).]

Hw's about putting the whole issue on the web site with a password accessed area given only to the subs? Just a thought.

Sorry but I did have to laugh when I saw this was marked as a "Hot Topic" ...

Tony

I agree with ijmac's suggestion. I'm particularly interested in the DVD Workshop Tuturial. Perhaps as a one-off key articles such as this could be made available for download from the web site in PDF format protected by password if felt necessary.

Copies were not available in my locality yesterday (21/12), so I've placed my order with a local newsagent. However, this issue will be in very short supply, and understandably newsagents are not going to bend over backwards to help people who normally get their copies through direct subscription. Many of us are likely to be disappointed.

Brian Reed
Spectrum Video Services
Chippenham, Wilts

I am looking at ways of making the issue available electronically.

The problem is that there's a lot of work involved in remaking the pages in a form where the file sizes will be small enough for everyone to be able to download in a reasonable period of time.

And, that means pulling people off of doing other things - which is VERY difficult at this time of year, cos so many of our designers are on holiday.

I'm going to have to speak to our production chief about this on Monday.

But, if the worse comes to the worse, I will upload the pages as text files - probably in a choice of formats - plain text and MS Word (or RTF).

That'll keep me busy over Christmas!

Ideally, though, I'd have us produce PDFs, cos these will include pics, too, and remain faithful to the original layout.

Bob C

Hi Bob,

Am I correct in thinking that you send .pdf's to the printers.

If so this could be a nice tool for converting your Original's directly to HTML for posting, for example on the CV web site
http://www.intrapdf.com/

Any use?

rgds

Guido

New issue of CV in WHSmiths in Victoria station this morning.

HTH
Martin

quote:Originally posted by GG:
Hi Bob,

Am I correct in thinking that you send .PDFs to the printers.

If so this could be a nice tool for converting your Original's directly to HTML for posting, for example on the CV web site
http://www.intrapdf.com/

Any use?

rgds

Guido

Guido,

Thanks for the tip.

I've been playing with this program this morning, and I can use it as a last resort but will try not to, cos the fonts are all wrong, and appear very small on the page.

This might be different if the originals had been created on the Windows on which the the program is being run - but this isn't the case, they were produced on Macs, so there is no way to bring over the fonts onto the Windows PC.

I've got PDFs for all pages, but they are too big, realistically, for most people to download - they're between 1MByte and 2MByte PER PAGE!

What I really want to do is to get someone to find the time to remake them with pics at lower resolution, to bring down the file sizes - and I'm hoping to see if that can be done before Christmas (but I'm not betting on it, cos we have a LOT of designers away).

If not, then I may do a temporary fix - and make articles available for download as text/MS Word/RTF documents, without pics - again, no guarantees, cos until I start experimenting, I've no idea how easy or difficult it will turn out to be to produce coherent documents.

Bob C

Bob

If you are going to get lower reasolution PDFs for the modem users could you also make the full size ones available for broadband users. Also I don't mind waiting a bit until after New year - so you can have Christmas off

Bob:

I *hope* I'm not teaching anyone to suck eggs, but it *shouldn't* be necessary to "remake the pages with low-res pics" at all. Assuming Mac versions of Acrobat are similar to Windows versions, there are also sorts of quality settings in the Acrobat writer software - "e-book, screen, print, press" being the main defaults. SO: logically, all your designers need to do is to re-load the files etc, and simply print the pages to .PDF with eg "screen" quality settings. That *ought* to get sizes down to say 100kb per page?... I use the software all the time for eg downloaded reports and papers on our (corporate, Govt Dept) web site - my only problem is when someone gives me the "press" version (8MB for a 12 page A5 leaflet say!). Best bit of software I ever bought!

Good luck. Me - I managed to get a copy from WH Smiths at Victoria Station.

David,

The software we use is some sort of extension to Quark Xpress, so your method is not open to us.

Thanks for the thought, though.

Cheers

Bob C

I look forward to some stuff in PDF or similar format.

One of the regular Compuer mags out there offer a CD with a certain number of back issues in PDF format.

Her indoors would love it if I could throw out the years of mags I keep just in case and my life would be happier.

Then again maybe not as she would find something else to whine about lol.

Made a special trip to WHS in Worcester they had a dozen copies on the shelf this morning at 0830 so on your recomendation I got mine. So as a subscriber maybe I can look forward to an extra copy or two when the system gets going again!.
Merry Cristmas.
Pete

Some WHS stores seem to be helpful. Mine (Burton on Trent) said last Friday they could not keep one issue for me only a regular order. They had none of the Jan or Feb issues on the shelf on Friday. Yesterday I went back and they had them in abundance. Just as I was about to pay, I thought the issue looked familiar and then I noticed it was January. No Feb issues to be seen. I despair.
Regards
Tony Roberts

there were dozens in WHS underneath liverpool street station yesterday

Hi

Picked up my February issue today in Brecon.

I was surprised to see it up with the camcorder mags, it's usually in the Computer section.

Page 21 was interesting
BTW the Ulead MSPro 6.52 patch is out now, I never saw the problems with VBR because I always used CBR.

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year To All

John
http://www.johnpr98.com

Newton Abbot WH Smith had stock today, so at least I`ve something to read over the break!

Happy Crimble.

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions

Blandford (home town) WHSmith doesn't stock CV. Whilst in Weymouth yesterday (Monday23) called at WHS there and, after much searching, found CV (on a shelf visible only to those <2ft 6in high).

Scooped it up gleefully, paid my £3.85 and went on my way rejoicing... until I got home and realised it was the January 2003 issue I'd bought and which I had finished reading a couple of weeks back. Bugger!

Back to WHS Blandford today and, after moaning that they ('corporately') shouldn't sell out of date mags, got my money back and bought a train mag for a friend for Christmas.

Still deprived of my holiday reading, though.

Anyway, happy Christmas to all, Alan.

PS Seems to me that the "future creep" of magazine dates is becoming cumulative. I guess we will be buying the Christmas 2010 issue around January 2009. Silly me for buying the January 2003 issue, after all...

WH Smith Redditch had it in stock today

Bob

What about putting the PDFs on CD and sending them out with the March (or even April) issue for those who don't have broadband? This would save your Christmas and let us get the mag in its full glory. I guess we could all wait in eager anticipation for a few more weeks.

------------------
Good Luck

Cliff

CMac Video Wedding Videos in Northern Ireland.

Scottish branches of W H Smith will not have the February issue until January,which seems reasonable. Does this mean that the Scottish stock was incinerated or is it stockpiled?
I can never understand why publishers sell magazines 2 months ahead of the published month, i.e. February's magazine in December, why not February's in February and December's in December!

My nearest W H Smiths is 300 miles away on the other side of the English Channel, which presents the odd problem.

In the middle of the French countryside ISDN = 14-20 kb/sec most of the time which limits the downloading somewhat

I like the idea of putting it on CD & in the circumstances wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for it.

I could live without the adverts and the buyers guide for a month, just the articles, news, editorial,letters. I suspect many overseas subscribers might be in a similar position.

How about it, Bob?

Got mine today in WHS Guildford.

They had approx 20 copies!

Re: comments about CD & pdf files.

I tend to wait a very long time before disposing of any technology magazines, much to the dismay of "she who must be obeyed..". So, I for one would welcome some offering that could put all the articles etc each year on CD for personal "archiving" on information.

The reason for a CD and not downloadable pdf's is that as "we" need good graphic details of any images. And such detail raises the files sizes too much for downloading etc.

Not correct!

"Scottish branches of WH Smith will not have the February issue until January,"

WH Smith (Motherwell) Delivery 27/12/02!
Happy Christmas foe me!

Not correct!

"Scottish branches of WH Smith will not have the February issue until January,"

WH Smith (Motherwell) Delivery 27/12/02!
Happy Christmas for me!

Got mine in WHSmiths Windsor on 27th

Chris

Hi,

My wife got my Scottish copy in WHS today in Aberdeen.

I'm interested in this analogue Studio Deluxe Board which operates with Edition DV.

Does this mean I can mix my firewire and Studio Deluxe footage on the timeline and then output the whole lot to a DV Tape.

Have a good New Year

Jim Bird.

Thanks for the info.WHSmith,Sevenoaks,Kent Have 7 copies
Barbara

In Wales for New Year, I picked up the last visible copy of CV in WHSmiths, Tenby.

One copy left in the kiosk thing at Wolverhampton railway station, as of 8AM today.

rob

Bob

Probably a bit late now, however, just for reference, Digit Magazine have a cover CD about once a year that has all of that year's issues in PDF format. Very useful. OK, I understand the cost issue, firstly of making the disc and secondly the loss of revenue from back orders, but it's not as if the PDF's are available on-line so completely eliminating the need for back issues.

Question re Quark: Is Adobe distiller not available for the Mac? When working (we are PC based) on print work we simply print to distiller and set the quality (level of jpeg compression) and away you go, about 100K per page. Makes proofs to clients much easier! You have loads of settings for vector artwork and graphics, but it is the graphics compression that can make the biggest difference to file size. You can also embed the fonts as outline, which solves you Mac / PC problem. Just for reference, you can take fonts from MAC to PC and back again through Fontographer, though I will admit that it doesn't work for all fonts.

Christmas time is never fun when deadlines loom and clients are demanding that work is still completed even where there are not enough people to do it. May the new year bring you better fortunes

PS

What a relief, got a copy from W H Smith's in Livingston today, Thursday. Plenty more left.

Harry

Bob

It appears you were unsucessful in getting the subscribers an extra free issue to compensate for the inconveience.

I received a letter today from WV Interactive Publications stating that my subscription would be extended by an additional issue, so that I receive the correct number of copies as per the agreement.

------------------
Many Regards
Phil

Yes I have the same letter as Bertieboy only one extra copy. Is this right Bob?

Ditto

Whilst I understand that there is a cost to the publishers of adding an extra copy it is equally the individual subscribers that have to shell out that little bit extra for the shop copy compared to the mailed one.

And wasn't there any insurance on the warehouse that will cover the loss of goods/revenue etc.

Lastly, I find it a little odd in this day of modern databases that the mailmerged letter sent out could not include the cover date of the final issue in the subscription thus giving a written confirmation of what we can expect to get.

Just my 2p's worth.

See my post & Bc`s reply on Feb Mag Compensation!

Would appear that maybe a few emails ought to be fired off to the relevant suits!!!!

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions

The thread Barry is referring to is this one:
http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum10/HTML/009451.html

Bob C

I bought one of two copies in WHS, Sloane Square, London today.

------------------
Paul

Well yet again it's the Computer Video subscribers who get treated badly. You take our money up front to bank and keep the company safely solvent and then frankly don't give a sh*t about us (apologies for the language but this has been brewing a while).

My wife and I subscribe to a number of magazines from a number of publishers (including some that come from the US!). All of those magazines hit our door mat on either the day of publication or, more often, earlier. It's a sort of thank you for being loyal and upfront with the money. You get to read your magazine before the people who want to browse in WH Smiths before parting with their cash.

Not so with Computer Video. The magazine is in all my local branches of WH Smiths and smaller newsagents at least a week before I get my copy. I have rung to complain on several ocassions and been told that this is unavoidable because the subscription copies are produced as a different batch. Clearly this shows that the shops come first. A fact backed up by the fire as the shops all got their copies and we, the loyal subsribers, are told that we will miss out, the magazine will not be reprinted or made available in an electronic form and that we will receive no compensation for our loss. An extra copy is not compensation - it is Computer Video magazine making sure they do not breach the contract they have with me (which is to supply twelve issues).

Bob says it is too much trouble to post text only files of the articles. Are we to assume that the magazine contributors type their text direct into Quark Express? All this nonsense about having to extract the text from Quark documents - doh! Why not use the original text prepared by the contributors?

And how many pages are we talkng about here? I picked up a copy of the magazine that was to hand - 37 pages out of 100 were articles (excluding the opening scream, letters and buyers guide). Even at 1-2Mb per file (are these supposed to be big numbers when as digital video producers we have files that use double this per second?) we are talking less than 100Mb in total. Ok I have broadband and this is no big deal but I've done my time on dial up downloading driver updates bigger than this. We have articles about streaming video and movies online and CV can't even get 37 pages of text to us. Pathetic!

You send the files to me Bob and I'll either burn them to cd for anyone who wants them at cost. Or I could put them on my pc and let people down them via Kazaa etc. It is obviously too much trouble for you or the company.

This offer is open to any of the chosen few who have the mag. Conatct me via this posting first and we can sort out how to manage geting some of the pages scanned etc and made available. Let's try offering a little of the customer service that CV and it's publisher don't understand or care about.

How many pages are we talking here? How many subscribers? This is the world of minority interest magazines, not Cosmo. What about simple photocopying of the useful pages (we don't need the ads)?

You were insured I presume? Doesn't that insurance cover compensating the susbcribers? Obviously not. We subscribers clearly have no place in your mind once you have our cash, then you are after fresh money from the customers in shops.

Hands up who will be renewing their sub after this and who will be making the trip to their local newsagent? It may cost a bit more but at least I will have a full set! And anyway I can have quick scan at WH Smiths and will not have to buy every copy so hey! I'm saving money too!

[This message has been edited by Peter Tomkies (edited 19 January 2003).]

Dear Peter, (Oh how I wish your name was John).

A fairly typical attitude from a Trading Standards Officer (I've looked up your profile), who has probably never done a real job for a living.

The fire destruction of subscribers' copies is not something that was planned by CV, and Bob C has tried to explain the logistics of resolving the shortfall to subscribers. (Is this a UK subscriber problem or world-wide?) I have a spare copy on my shelves which I will forward to the 1st person who e-mails me. - FOC!

You are one of the breed who chastise me for not having the Class, or Country of Origin against my price list for apples - customers aren't really interested in such rubbish, they just want to buy an apple, for Gawd's sake!

The best advice that I can give to you is, cancel your subscription and don't sully these web pages with your gripes and moans again!

In business life, it is well-known that TSO's are the weakest link - Goodbye!

Alan Wells

Dear Alan,

While I think Peter's post is a bit over the top, it seems to me to contain some valid points. Your reply, on the other hand, is gratuitously insulting. How did apples enter the equation? Don't bother looking up my profile - I don't do a 'proper' job either. I've only recently subscribed to CV; the Feb edition was to be the first I received. I bought one from WHSmith instead - but it may not be so easy for everyone else.

------------------
Paul

'Calling a spade a spade' and 'speaking your mind' are good Lancastrian traditions even if it is, occasionally, a little OTT. After thirty odd years of doing VSO (providing technical aid to the soft underbelly of the country) in the South of England I have come to appreciate that they are not always appreciated by the chattering classes.

Software exists to strip text from .pdf files, though I would have thought that a CD, containing the files themselves, sent out to subscribers with a future issue would generate more goodwill than the very small amount it would cost. Even the 'suits' should be able to appreciate that. (I was able to buy a copy and have no need myself.)

Chris

P.S. I enjoyed the last of the interests listed in your profile Alan

Paul,

Of course, it was insulting - it was meant to be! Do you think that there was nothing insulting in Peter's posts (they are available on several threads).

Please tell us the valid points?

There are several points in PT's diatribe that I personally feel are unwarranted and believe me, I am not a Bob C sycophant.

When one wishes to make a serious point, one writes, reviews, spell-checks and considers whether that is the real message that one wishes to portray - sadly, I fear that PT fails!

Please remember that no-one is forced to visit these messageboards.

Yours unapologetically, Alan Wells

Alan

How strange that you feel the need to criticise one of the many jobs I have done in my life time as a way of attacking the points I have made.

I have looked at your profile and do not want to engage in an exchange of personal insults. I don't like to engage in unfair fights.

If you want to discuss the points I made then please do but let's not get into playground name-calling. This forum is hopefully above that.

I tend to agree with many of the points made by Peter, if not with the way in which they are made.
I have not subscribed to CV magazine because of the numerous complaints over time about the late delivery of the subscription issues. In my view two of the major reasons for subscribing are (1) to ensure you receive your copy and (2) to get the edition early thereby gaining a slight edge on advertised offers. The financial advantage of subscribing to CV is little enough for it not to be a major factor.
I believe the publishers have shot themselves in the foot but leading Bob to believe that 13 copies, instead of the normal 12, would be provided as compensation and then reneging on that claim. Even if Bob had misunderstood what was said (unlikely) surely purely as an act of goodwill to subscribers it would have made sense to go along with what their own mag editor had put in print. The impression they have reinforced by failing to do this is that they really don't give a stuff about the subscribers to a niche publication. I would suggest that existing subscribers simply don't renew and just place an order with their local newsagent and collect.

------------------
Regards

Keith

Dear Alan,

Here are some of the points in Peter's post I thought were worth a moment's consideration.

1 - My wife and I subscribe to a number of magazines from a number of publishers including some that come from the US!). All of those magazines hit our door mat on either the day of publication or. more often, earlier. It's a sort of thank you for being loyal and upfront with the money. You get to read your magazine before the people who want to browse in WH Smiths before parting with their cash. Not so with Computer Video. The magazine is in all my local branches of WH Smiths and smaller newsagents at least a week before I get my copy.

2 - An extra copy is not compensation - it is Computer Video magazine making sure they do not breach the contract they have with me (which is to supply twelve issues).

3 - Bob says it is too much trouble to post text only files of the articles. Why not use the original text prepared by the contributors?

4 - You send the files to me Bob and I'll either burn them to cd for anyone who wants them at cost. Or I could put them on my pc and let people down them via Kazaa etc.

5 - How many pages are we talking here? How many subscribers? This is the world of minority interest magazines, not Cosmo. What about simple photocopying of the useful pages (we don't need the ads)?

6 - You were insured I presume? Doesn't that insurance cover compensating the susbcribers?

The main focus of his ire seems to me to be the publishers and not Bob.

It's obviously true that 'nobody is forced to visit these messageboards', but what does that mean, exactly?

Chris, how did talk of the chattering classes in the soft underbelly of the South creep into this? Peter is in Manchester, Alan in Aberdeen and I'm a working class boy born and bred in Wishaw, near Glasgow. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I'm off now for some caviar and a glass of Pimms Number 1 Cup with my middle-class, Chelsea-born-and-bred wife (I'd ignore everything she said if she didn't talk so much sense)

------------------
Paul

Dear All,

As my mother once said, "Son, you could make a noise in an empty house" - how to quieten things down now?

Firstly, Peter T, in my opinion your original post was OTT. Can't remember where I read it first, but "When I was a child, I saw things through a child's eyes, but now that I am a man, I see things through a man's eyes, but now that I am etc............".

On this webboard, Bob C is Computer Video but at Computer Video, Bob C is only an employee - if he makes a promise that is not upheld by "the powers that be" or the insurers, then don't shoot the messenger. If Bob C made any mistake, it was to tell subscribers of the steps that he was taking before the logistics of delivery of these promises had been worked out - but then again, I don't speak for Bob C.

If the truth be known, there are possibly/probably enough returns from newsagents of unsold copies as would fulfil the outstanding subscriber orders in UK, albeit a month late. As a newsagent, I have an unsold copy on my shelves which I would forward FOC - there hasn't been a demand on this webboard.

Peter, from the vigour that you have written your posts (the grammar and spelling mistakes give it away), you feel passionate about the problem, however, you go on to say that you have bought a copy of the missing edition. So why the excitement?

Paul (hig), re your repeat of Peter's complaints worthy of my consideration, nope!
and specifically, do you think that a few complaints on this webboard would be put in front of the board of HH Comms plc?

Keitht,

You and I have crossed swords somewhere before but I can't remember where so it must have been fairly inconsequential or dimmed in the mist of time - and so will this small hiccup.

I am convinced that everybody who feels that they must have a copy of the missing mag. could get one.

The righteous indignation being expressed is really sad! - Seasonal Affective Disorder!

Good night!

Alan Wells

quote:Originally posted by hig:

Chris, how did talk of the chattering classes in the soft underbelly of the South creep into this? Peter is in Manchester, Alan in Aberdeen and I'm a working class boy born and bred in Wishaw, near Glasgow. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

In answer to your question, I had hoped that a little humour might diffuse a tense situation. With your final sentence I can but agree. What Pope actually wrote was " A little LEARNING is a dang'rous thing."

Just to clarify something Alan has raised. I don't have a copy of the Feb issue of the magazine, I referred to a copy of the magazine that was to hand (actually August 2001!). I am hoping to get one from the WH Smiths mentioned in one of the postings (Ipswich I believe?).

My responses to Peter's substantive posting are included here [in square brackets] below his comments.

Bob C
---------------------
Well yet again it's the Computer Video subscribers who get treated badly.

[I don’t think that CV subscribers are treated badly, so hopefully you’ll explain]

You take our money up front to bank and keep the company safely solvent

[Across all of out titles, it’s the advertising revenue that keeps the company solvent – the revenue from news-stand sales is the icing on the cake, and that from subscriptions is the cherry on top of that]

and then frankly don't give a sh*t about us (apologies for the language but this has been brewing a while).

[Most of the people working for the company do actually give a shit – including those who take the final decisions]

My wife and I subscribe to a number of magazines from a number of publishers including some that come from the US!). All of those magazines hit our door mat on either the day of publication or more often, earlier.

[CV normally does reach subscribers before it goes on sale, so I’m not sure what you are saying here]

It's a sort of thank you for being loyal and upfront with the money.

[No, it’s part of the reason why people subscribe – to get the mag at the earliest possible time – as you point out below]

You get to read your magazine before the people who want to browse in WH Smiths before parting with their cash.

Not so with Computer Video. The magazine is in all my local branches of WH Smiths and smaller newsagents at least a week before I get my copy.

[I don’t remember receiving any communications from you – letter, phone or post about this problem, though perhaps my memory fails me here. However, I’ve searched my cix email database going back to 8-11-01, and can find no email from you telling me about this problem. And, I have searched the Computer Video forum, going back to the very first posting on 30-3-99, and can find no message from you about this problem. As a trading standards officer you, above all people, should know that problems need to be made a matter of record. Simply EXPLODING when you can bear it no more is not a very sensible or productive way to solve any problem]

I have rung to complain on several occassions and been told that this is unavoidable because the subscription copies are produced as a different batch.

[I don’t know who you could have talked to, but it certainly wasn’t anybody in the editorial office and, whoever it was, was talking out of their backsides. There is one print run only. If YOU are regularly not getting your subscription issue of CV before it goes on sale, this will almost certainly be because the newsagent who has it on sale has put it on sale early. If you are having to phone up the subs dept to get your issues – ie they are not being sent automatically – then there is clearly something wrong with the details we have for your subscription and this needs to be sorted out (but I don't know if this is what you are saying). As for issues going on sale early, this is something WE do not want to happen, for two very obvious reasons: 1/ It means that the issue that should be on sale has come off sale early, losing possible revenue. 2/ It pisses off subscribers something rotten]

Clearly this shows that the shops come first.

[It might do, if what you had been told were true, but what you’ve been told is not true. What happens is the distribution company sends out issues to the retail trade in a timely manner, so that they can be put on sale on the date that we say they should be put on sale. If the retailer puts them on sale early, there is little we can do about it. What possible sanction could we impose - tell them they can't sell the mag? That would be madness when what we want is to increase our news-stand presence, not reduce it]

A fact backed up by the fire as the shops all got their copies

[These will have been despatched at much the same time as the subscription copies, so it was not a simple matter of saying, “We’ll take 10 from that order, and 10 from that and 10 from another until we make up the thousands of issues required for subscribers” There were no magazine that we could cherry-pick this way, and the logistics of trying to get them back once they’d gone out is a nightmare.]

and we, the loyal subsribers, are told that we will miss out

[Well, you miss out only in as much as THAT issue will not be sent to you – the subscription is being extended so we are not saying, “you lost an issue, tough shit”]

the magazine will not be reprinted

[doing so, I am told is totally impractical, not least because the printing business is so tightly run that there simply aren’t presses sitting around unused to print them. Of course, we probably could have paid an arm and a leg to get some extras produced, but not in a realistic timescale and not without incurring significant expense that could not be recouped]

or made available in an electronic form

[I said a few days ago here: www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum10/HTML/009451.html that I would try to ensure that the mag is available in electronic form but that I did NOT anticipate this happening before the Feb issue goes off sale]

and that we will receive no compensation for our loss.

[the subscriptions are to be extended, by a single issue, so where is the loss that you want compensation for?]

An extra copy is not compensation - it is Computer Video magazine making sure they do not breach the contract they have with me (which is to supply twelve issues).

[Why do you want compensation? What loss have you suffered? Are we talking about a moral requirement for compensation or a legal requirement. We publish a magazine, we don’t do heart surgery or brain transplants.]

Bob says it is too much trouble to post text only files of the articles. Are we to assume that the magazine contributors type their text direct into Quark Express? All this nonsense about having to extract the text from Quark documents - doh! Why not use the original text prepared by the contributors?

[You really have got a nasty way about you, and no mistake. We do NOT publish what contributors write! We edit it – and believe me, we really DO edit it (any of the contributors hereabouts can confirm this). I personally spend MANY hours editing each review, tutorial and feature, and the time taken is quite often measured in days, if the subject matter is complex – such as the tutorial in the Feb issue. This is because I try to duplicate (where hardware/software allow) everything the author has written, so that I know it is correct and understandable. After that, our sub-editor puts it into Quark Xpress and edits it again. Then he prints out a copy and I edit it again, and we keep on correcting things – in Quark Xpress - that we didn’t spot previously or which are necessary to take account of changed circumstances. The only words that I would ALLOW to be published anywhere else are those from the final Quark document – because those are what we had in the magazine and they bear little resemblance, often, to the author’s original]

And how many pages are we talkng about here? A picked up a copy of th magazien that was to hand - 37 pages out of 100 were articles (excluding the opening scream, letters and buyers guide). Even a 1-2Mb per file (are these supposed to be big numbers when as digital video producers we have files that use double tis per second?) we are talking less than 100Mb in total. Ok I have broadband and this is no big deal but I've done my time on dial up downloading driver updates bigger than this. We have articles about streaming video and movies online and CV can't even get 37 pages of text to us. Pathetic!

[Glad to know you are so considerate of all the many people who don’t have broadband and for whom, a 2MByte file is a big deal, and for whom 30+ would be a nightmare]

You send the files to me Bob and I'll either burn them to cd for anyone who wants them at cost.

[We are talking about THOUSANDS of subscribers – so please don’t be silly]

Or I could put them on my pc and let people down them via Kazaa etc. It is obviously too much trouble for you or the company.

[You don’t have the bandwith to cope]

This offer is open to any of the chosen few who have the mag. Conatct me via this posting first and we can sort out how to manage geting some of the pages scanned etc and made available. Let's try offering a little of the cusotmer service that CV and it's publisher don't understand or care about.

[I don’t have the energy to comment about that snide remark]

How many pages are we talking here? How many subscribers? This is the world of minority interest magazines, not Cosmo. What about simple photocopying of the useful pages (we don't need the ads)?
You were insured I presume? Doesn't that insurance cover compensating the susbcribers? Obviously not.

[Surely you know that insurance companies pay out the ABSOLUTE minimum, ALWAYS. So anything we do that isn’t going to be covered by the distribution company’s insurance – which is where the liability lies, I think – is going to have to be paid for.]

We subscribers clearly have no place in your mind once you have our cash, then you are after fresh money from the customers in shops.

[I don’t think I’ve got the energy to post a rejoinder to that, either]

Hands up who will be renewing their sub after this and who will be making the trip to their local newsagent? It may cost a bit more but at least I will have a full set! And anyway I can have at WH Smiths and will not have to buy every copy so hey! I'm saving money too!

[This is the choice that every subscriber must make. Fortunately, I don’t think you have given any cogent reasons for anyone else to stop subscribing]

Oh, and Peter also posted his comments on this thread:
http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum10/HTML/009487.html

Various people have commented to that thread, and I have posted the above comment there, also, and then closed that thread.

In addition, I have deleted another posting of the same thing that Peter placed in this thread: http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum10/HTML/009451.html

Please continue any discussion about this matter here, not anywhere else.

Bob C

[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 18 January 2003).]

"Hands up who will be renewing their sub after this"

erm.... I Will !

Kind regards all.

[This message has been edited by Stuart B-M (edited 19 January 2003).]

Got my sun glasses on because everything's fine. How could I have mistaken such a perfect world for one with any faults?

I must have been confused by the emails I got or the messages in agreement posted on the message board. Keitht seems equally confused as he is aware of numerous complaints about late delivery of subscription copies and yet none of these complaints exist.

I have not raised the issue of late subscription copies with you Bob because you are the Editor of the magazine and not responsible for subscriptions. I do not presume you post them all.

I imagine in my deluded state I would have rung the Subscription Hotline number in the publishers details at the back of the magazine.

And why does everyone feel the need to insult my profession? (That is, everyone apart from those I have helped via the message board or personal emails since Alan felt the need to disparage trading standards).

Ever thought of having a consumer advice section to assist readers who have suffered poor customer service Bob?

But what the hey? I'm out of step with the world and everything is in fact fine. Where did I leave my fiddle?

Peter,

Rather than climb back up on your soapbox and mouth off, please look at what I've said and respond to it.

Bob

Bob

This appears at some point along the line to have become the majority of the forum contributors defending you against me.

I have tried to remedy that fact several times in posts above but it still feels like I am being put in a position where I cannot criticise the deal that subscribers have without being seen to be "against Bob".

That is not nor ever has been the case. You are not responsible for the actions of the publishers and I believe you have tried to lobby them on behalf of the subscribers.

I do not doubt your honesty or integrity at all and if that is the impression I have given I apologise unreservedly.

The facts of my experience are that I always knew when my subscription copy would be arriving because I would see it in WH Smiths about a week before. And this is not once or twice this is regularly (and at all braches of WHS in the area) and got to the point where I just accepted it. I got my magazine and didn't have to walk to the shops so it was ok but I didn't feel that I got as good a service as from other magazines publishers I subscribe with. That is not something for which I blamed you or any of the staff writers/contributors etc.

I have on several occassions (in the first year or so of my subscription) rung the subscription hotline and I can assure you I was told that the subscription copies usually arrived for distribution after they were sent to the shops and so it was likely to be the case that I would see the mag in shops before I got my copy. (I'm also sure this issue has been raised on the message board before but could not find any links when I searched).

No I have not kept detailed records of these calls because when someone tells you your magazine is not missing in the post and will be with you in a week you wait and when it turns up you are satisfied. I don't live my personal life in the same way I conduct criminal investigations in my working life.

I do not expect to be compensated. I agree with you that my contract is for X issues of the magazine and if I get that then the contract is fulfilled (I think that was the pont I was making in the original submission). It was the way in which people had posted replies acting as if this was a generous offer by the publishers that had ired me.

I'm still not quite sure I understand how if the subscription copies are sent out at the same time as the magazine is shipped to newsagents that ours all burned and theirs didn't but I don't want to start another fight. The copies are gone and that is that. It's how the situation is handled from a PR point of view that matters.

I gave an example in an email to someone who contacted me direct - if you went to get a train and Virgin said they had cancelled it because of circumstances beyond their control, here's your money back, now go get the bus - how would you feel?

As for publishing the magazine online - I support Arsenal and they manage to get the match programme contents online each week within a few days of the game. I am not saying this is a job that you Bob should do personally in addition to the many long hours you work already but is it really such an expensive and difficult job for the publishers to pay someone to do this? Yes it is an extra expense but it would also be great PR and customer service.

I was not dismissing those who have dial up because I have broadband. If you reread that part you will see I am saying exactly the opposite. I reference to downloading driver files via 56k modem - some of these are huge and meant leaving my PC on night after night to download while I slept. It is a pain but something that as to be done.

I have never intended to insult you, the web board or the magazine my gripe is with the publishers. But in no way do I feel that the powers that be at Highbury House Plc view me as a subscriber as the "cherry on the icing on the cake". Far from it. As a matter of interest what is the circulation of the magazine and how many subscribers do you have? How are the advertisers being treated? Refunds of their fees or just free adverts in future magazines?

My part in this series of posts has gone on far too long and got all out of hand. If it really is just me and my opinion alone then let's just end all this now.

I have had some posts in agreement with my viewpoint (if not my method of expressing it - I am actually a Southerner who came to the North a while ago and stayed so I don't think the good people of Lancashire would count me as one of their own) but more against. I guess all the other subscribers do get their magazine early.

[This message has been edited by Peter Tomkies (edited 19 January 2003).]

Peter,

I just spent 40 mins preparing a reply, and when I sent it, it didn't arrive!

Arse!

I'll come back here this evening and recreate that posting.

Bob C

As my name has been mentioned in a couple of the later posts may I clarify the situation a little.

Alan. Yes we have disagreed in the past and I dare say we will do so again but as far as I recall neither of us have been throwing the toys out of the pram. This forum does allow the free and frank exchange of views and long may that continue.

Peter. There were undoubtedly problems in the past with subscription deliveries although that did seem to be resolved, in part I think, by using new distributors.

I have never met BC but it should be plain to anybody who has used this board much that he works bloody hard and still gets more than his share of flak. Don't shoot the messenger.

If there really will be a large number of copies returned could that not have been made known earlier in the piece or would that simply have opened a new can of worms if there weren't enough to go round?

Finally for now, I found Bob's explanation of the editing process a real eye opener. I didn't realise how much work was required once the 'finished' article was received from the contributor. I assumed that the writer was told what was needed and how much space would be available. It would then just be a case of getting the text sitting nicely around the graphics on the page. Shows how much I know about publishing!

------------------
Regards

Keith

Peter,

Here's my recreation of that posting that disappeared into the ether. As before, [my comments are in square brackets]

This appears at some point along the line to have become the majority of the forum contributors defending you against me.

I have tried to remedy that fact several times in posts above but it still feels like I am being put in a position where I cannot criticise the deal that subscribers have without being seen to be "against Bob".

That is not nor ever has been the case. You are not responsible for the actions of the publishers and I believe you have tried to lobby them on behalf of the subscribers.

I do not doubt your honesty or integrity at all and if that is the impression I have given I apologise unreservedly.

[I appreciate your saying that]

The facts of my experience are that I always knew when my subscription copy would be arriving because I would see it in WH Smiths about a week before. And this is not once or twice this is regularly (and at all braches of WHS in the area) and got to the point where I just accepted it.

I got my magazine and didn't have to walk to the shops so it was ok but I didn't feel that I got as good a service as from other magazines publishers I subscribe with. That is not something for which I blamed you or any of the staff writers/contributors etc.

[This is not normal. Either the local branches of W H Smith are putting the mag on sale early, or there is something wrong with the way your subscription is being handled. Or both. Whatever the case, I want to resolve the problem, and would ask you to email me with the full name and address under which the subscription is registered, and a brief summary of the problem, and for how long this has been going on. Take the SPAM out of this address – bcrabtreeSPAM@cix.co.uk]

I have on several occassions (in the first year or so of my subscription) rung the subscription hotline and I can assure you I was told that the subscription copies usually arrived for distribution after they were sent to the shops and so it was likely to be the case that I would see the mag in shops before I got my copy. (I'm also sure this issue has been raised on the message board before but could not find any links when I searched).

No I have not kept detailed records of these calls because when someone tells you your magazine is not missing in the post and will be with you in a week you wait and when it turns up you are satisfied. I don't live my personal life in the same way I conduct criminal investigations in my working life.

[Fully understood, but please let me have as much info as you can muster – the better to sort out the problem]

I do not expect to be compensated. I agree with you that my contract is for X issues of the magazine and if I get that then the contract is fulfilled (I think that was the pont I was making in the original submission). It was the way in which people had posted replies acting as if this was a generous offer by the publishers that had ired me.

[The original – and subsequently non-happening – two-issue idea was, I think, pretty decent. Had this not been mentioned at all, though, I don’t think anyone would have thought the worse of us for only offering a single issue in recompense. In hindsight, I should not have given details of our plans until they were concrete - or, more accurately, until I had received written confirmation of them]

I'm still not quite sure I understand how if the subscription copies are sent out at the same time as the magazine is shipped to newsagents that ours all burned and theirs didn't but I don't want to start another fight.

[This is a perfectly fair question. What happens is that the mags are effectively split in two (well, into three actually, with a couple of hundred being sent to our offices for mailing out to advertisers, manufacturers, PRs and contributors, and some left over for back-issue sales). One lot goes to a warehouse where they are prepared for sending out to subscribers – they are bagged, and address labels are attached. The second lot go into the retail distribution chain, and then pass onwards through a series of smaller warehouses for local distribution in a timely fashion to shops. But, the sending out of both lots, as I understand it, happens simultaneously, and the ones that go into the retail chain are dispersed among very many different locations. What you may also not know is that for some years, magazine publishers have not received back issues that are unsold – we have a record of sales, of course, but we do not receive them back. Despite this being the case I plan to see if there is ANY way at all we can retrieve some, somehow, once the mag goes off sale]

The copies are gone and that is that. It's how the situation is handled from a PR point of view that matters.

[I think my original posting, made soon after we knew about the fire, is an example of a good intention that went wrong. I’m not happy that the plan to extend subs by two issues was not implemented, but it would have been wiser for me not to have mentioned it until I’d received confirmation in writing that this was going to happen]

I gave an example in an email to someone who contacted me direct - if you went to get a train and Virgin said they had cancelled it because of circumstances beyond their control, here's your money back, now go get the bus - how would you feel?

[Not, really, a very good analogy. Better, surely, to think of us telling you that “the train you wanted to catch caught fire and was destroyed, but we are providing you with a ticket for the next train.”?]

As for publishing the magazine online - I support Arsenal and they manage to get the match programme contents online each week within a few days of the game.

[They are able to do this only because they have systems in place to do it. We do not]

I am not saying this is a job that you Bob should do personally in addition to the many long hours you work already but is it really such an expensive and difficult job for the publishers to pay someone to do this? Yes it is an extra expense but it would also be great PR and customer service.

[Indeed it would]

I was not dismissing those who have dial up because I have broadband. If you reread that part you will see I am saying exactly the opposite. I reference to downloading driver files via 56k modem - some of these are huge and meant leaving my PC on night after night to download while I slept. It is a pain but something that as to be done.

[It simply would not be reasonable for us to put this burden upon people who do not have broadband. Using lower-res PDFs is a better solution, and one that I am still hoping to implement]

I have never intended to insult you, the web board or the magazine my gripe is with the publishers.

[This is now understood – but your use of “You” didn’t initially give that sort of impression to members, seemingly]

But in no way do I feel that the powers that be at Highbury House Plc view me as a subscriber as the "cherry on the icing on the cake".

[In that you are entirely wrong. The huge bulk of our revenue is derived from advertising. Next, in terms of value, is our split of retail sales. Last comes the subscriptions. Yes, it is good to have a decent level of subscriptions, and CV’s subscriptions have for a good while been the most numerous of any mag at Highbury-WV (though, I guess, that some of the hobby/home-interest titles published by other Highbury companies have far higher numbers of subs, relatively speaking)]

Far from it. As a matter of interest what is the circulation of the magazine and how many subscribers do you have?

[For commercial reasons, this is not information we disclose]

How are the advertisers being treated? Refunds of their fees or just free adverts in future magazines?

[I have no direct dealings with such matters. I can find out, but I suspect that I would be asked not to say here how we are dealing with advertisers, and I think that would be a reasonable request to make of me]

My part in this series of posts has gone on far too long and got all out of hand. If it really is just me and my opinion alone then let's just end all this now.

I have had some posts in agreement with my viewpoint (if not my method of expressing it - I am actually a Southerner who came to the North a while ago and stayed so I don't think the good people of Lancashire would count me as one of their own) but more against. I guess all the other subscribers do get their magazine early.

[Although there are problems from time to time – and some people may find that these have dragged on – the large majority of subscribers do now receive their issues in a timely manner]

Bob C

Thanks for your reply Bob.

I fully understand the commercial reasons that prevent you from responding to some of the questions.

In relation to who my complaints were aimed at in my initial posting Hig did post a message (above) supporting the view that I was aiming my missive at the Publishers and not your personally. However I have to accept that this was not perception of the majority of members and for that again I apologise.

Thanks again for all your hard work on the magazine and web board Bob.

Peter,

Thanks - but please don't forget to email with those details.

Cheers

Bob C

So anyway, here I am stuck in the middle of the French countryside with no chance of getting to the UK till mid-March, does anyone have a spare copy, or can copy the articles & tutorials in some form and post them? I can cover your costs inc. postage with a UK Cheque

Regards Mike

[This message has been edited by Michael H S (edited 03 February 2003).]