There goes the network neighborhood!

What ip addresses have you assigned ?

we can continue this by email if you prefer

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

The set-up's at home, so I'll give you the IP address tonight.

I'm happy continuing here - just in case some poor lost soul encounters the same demons in future...

Pete

Damn...I did this just the other week,
I created a network with a Win2K machine and a Win98SE machine...I remeber selecting client for MS networks and File and printer sharing for Microsoft networks made sure they were both on the same domain/workgroup.
Called CathyBarry. Then rebooted both the machines then started up the machine whose file/folder I was going to share, shared that folder, than booted the other machine (win2K)...I then found it on network neighbourhood. If I remeber the whole procedure step by step i'll post it up during the WeekEnd..

You should be able to use the IP address range 10.1.1.* (I do with my network at home).

As I understand it, they're not routeable on the internet, so they're perfect for setting up your own LANs.

Chris.

The first thing you must achieve is a successful ping.

On the Win 2000 machines go to the command prompt and type in ipconfig /all.(Its start/run winipcfg in 95/98)
This should show the IP address host name, network card etc...
If it does not show this it maybe a incorrect network card driver.

If OK then try to ping localhost this should work with ping times.

This is stage 1 let me no how you get on then well move to stage 2.

It’s the best way to do it.

Mick

Try right clicking on network hood and search for machines by name.

I couldn't get a successful ping, and I couldn't find any driver problems with the network cards. They allseem to be connecting fine to the hub, as the little lights are doing what they oughta.

I also tried searching for computers by name, but no joy there either.

Thanks for the replies so far. Please keep 'em coming!

Cheers,

Pete

Pete,

First thing first

1. Ping 127.0.0.1 (loop back address) to see if networking and IP are installed properly
2. Ping your own IP address
3. Make sure all computers have the same net mask using the methods hawk mentioned (use a mask of 255.255.255.0 and make sure the IP addresses of the clients have the first same numbers in the first three octets(which are the numbers between the dots)) and then a number of your choice, but not the same of course.
4. Check your cables again
5. Check the hub
6. It is a good idea of Chris's to have the private address range 10.1.1.1-255 on your network, but it doesn't really matter as your network is not directly connected to the internet.

If you can't ping the remote computer then you certainly are not going to be able to see other computers on the network. File sharing relies on a thing called Remote Procedure Call (RPC) Communications. This relies on being able to resolve the computer names to an IP address. Without IP, you are going nowhere.

When you have IP sorted, it's best to have both machines participating in the same workgroup although not neccessary, then they will appear under the same grouping in N.Neighborhood. The Win2k machine will appear on the neighborhood, but the Win98 machine will need File and Print Sharing turning on to broadcast it self to the wide (if not small) world on your LAN.

It mainly sounds like your problem is that you've got a funky net mask or the IP addresses are pertaining to be on different networks, and it's trying to locate it on a remote network via the default gateway(or route, for you swanky new win2k users).

Either way, post the details of All IP's, Net Masks, gateways, computer names and anything else you can think of.

Networking is a doddle once you understand the basics.

Good Luck and here from you soon.

Tim

[This message has been edited by tim@work (edited 11 May 2001).]

Thanks Tim,

I'll get onto it when I get home.

Cheers,

Pete

Sorry Pete but little light on the Network cards, means you have connectivity between cards not that the drivers are correct. (With Wake on LAN cards the light will be on even if the PC is turned off at the front).

You could try installing NetBeui on two machines, and then try Start Run \\Computer name.

If this does not work I suspect the Network card drivers, or the hub (which you can take out of the equation with a crossover cable direct to 2 machines)

Good luck, we will make it work

Mick

Told you networking wasn't my strong point!

Cheers,

Pointy Pete

Hey Hawk,

You an IT geek like me, or just well up on yer networking?

Tim

With the current Windows versions (i.e. what you've got), TCP/IP is the default protocol, and you shouldn't even need to allocate IP addresses. Windows should automatically work out suitable IP addresses for itself. This is how networking will set itself up by default.

As nothing's talking to anything (as I understand the situation), I'd suspect the hub first. I agree with Hawk's suggestion of just getting two going with a crossover cable.

But first you need that cable - it's not the same as a PC-to-hub one ...

------------------
Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the new MediaStudio Pro 6 Tutorial

If your talking about 2 comps on a lan using a hub u should be using the IPX protocall
and this is not installed by default in windows.
u should'nt need to set ip adresses up at all

[This message has been edited by Mad_mardy (edited 11 May 2001).]

RichardJ,

I've never heard of Windows sorting out it's own IP address on a LAN by itself unless it is in a client/server environment using DHCP. Using a workgroup because DHCP isn't doing the hard work IP needs to be configured so that when it trys to contact another machine it uses the mask against the IP address to resolve the network ID (The first part of the IP address) and the remaining is the host IP address. If the mask is wrong then the two machines will think they are on different subnets and therefore will not be able to communicate.

The crossover cable is an idea, but it's still better using a hub as it acts as a diagnostic in the event of anything being wrong, and it allows for better expansion just incase Pete every gets another new computer.

Mad,

IPX is an option, but with IP being such a defacto, it's better to get IP running properly. Especially if it is going to be or is set up for modem sharing or Dialup routers. Otherwise he'll need to use an expensive proxy gateway to surf. Also, netbeui is a good idea, but again the above applies. Netbeui is by far the easiest to use, but again IP being such a standard, I'd have nothing less.

Let's get IP working, it'll serve him best.

Tim

[This message has been edited by tim@work (edited 11 May 2001).]

Hi,

Do not enable IPX at ANY COST, I earned a large fee from a customer, for just disabling IPX on a Windows NT network recently. It fixed a problem, you have been warned.

Enabling the NetBEUI Protocol and binding it to your card would be a better idea.

If you still want to enable IP that's OK.

In your Win2000 machine type IPCONFIG /ALL at the command prompt. (I can't remember the 95/98 command) its something like IPCONGF? I'm an NT person myself.

This will let you see your IP configuration.

Use the following IP settings

PC No1.

IP Address 10.10.10.1
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

PC No2.

10.10.10.10.2
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

You DO NOT require a Default Router Address and Mask, leave it blank, you only need this setting if you are trying to reach a remote network and your 2 machines are on the same network so it's not required.

Your machines should have different computer names but the same work group name.

Do not enable Routing, DHCP or WINS on any of the machines.

Remember to re-boot after making any config changes, it's safer to do that even with Win2000.

Also at the command prompt you can look at your settings using the following commands

Type the following

NBTSTAT -r
NBTSTAT -rr
NBTSTAT -a
NBTSTAT -n
NBTSTAT -c
NET VIEW
NET CONFIG
ARP -a

The crossed lead between the 2 machines is good idea.

Make sure that you are getting the link lights on at both ends of the link i.e. Both PC lights and the 2 lights on the hub.

The link speed on the ethernet card needs to be set correctly.

If you have a 10 MB/sec hub, the card setting needs to be 10/MBsec at Half Duplex.

The default speed setting on most ethernet cards is auto negotiate. This is not always ideal it depends on the version of network driver it's safer to set it manually.

If you use the crossed lead you can set the interface cards to 100/MBsec full duplex on both machines and watch them Gooo!!!!!

Hint. Go to the card manufacturers web site and down load the latest version of their diver.

Jim Bird

[This message has been edited by Jim Bird (edited 11 May 2001).]

I have a tame 'black belt' who i call in to sort out my worst foul-ups on my pc, for an hourly fee. Recently he networked up mine and my daughters pcs for obvious benefits, printer and scanner sharing, etc. A big bugbear in our household is that we are heavy internet users, being brilliant, I thought we might use the network to allow both of us access simultaeneously, The "Black belt" tried but then said it was probably not possible due to the AOL6 software.
To hijack the thread, does anyone know different?

we use hundreds of NT machines at warwick university connected via NT servers using novell client straight onto the Janet backbone
Ipx is how the whole network is connected to the servers netbeau is not used at all
in fact i've never seen a network on the simple scale in question run without IPX

Although networking isnt where my strong points lie, having only networked about 10 machines together a one time so admitedly there are bigs gaps in my knowledge.
just out of interest what problem did the IPX cause

[This message has been edited by Mad_mardy (edited 11 May 2001).]

Hi,

The MS implementation of IPX is C**P.

The NetBEUI protocol which belongs to MS is actual very good and is very efficient at moving large amounts of data on a local network, it's big draw back IS, it's not a routable protocol.

So for Pete's doing it's ideal, if not the best choice.

I'd like to check your network for broadcast storms.

Jim Bird

[This message has been edited by Jim Bird (edited 11 May 2001).]

Pete

I think it's about time your gave us you set up details.

You know like when you get the question my DV500 does not work, but no more info.

Need to know number of PC's, OS of each, Network card installed, IP addresses, sub net mask, type hub, etc...

But I go back to my original, before you can ping the other PC's, all the rest is a waste of time, or dead end.

Also Tim, a bit of a geek , but mainly just had lots of fun setting up my home network.
and lot's of reading of the best network site, www.practicallynetworked.com.
This may also be worth a look Pete.

Mick

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 11 May 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by Jim Bird:
Hi,

Do not enable IPX at ANY COST, I earned a large fee from a customer, for just disabling IPX on a Windows NT network recently. It fixed a problem, you have been warned.

Enabling the NetBEUI Protocol and binding it to your card would be a better idea.

Hi Jim, some useful info there, but bit of a blanket statement about IPX.

The IPX protocol was, and still is used heavily by Novell alongside IP, plenty or Enterprises around the world using Novell. You are also forgetting LAN party users who mainly use IPX also - LAN parties, along with moving video over a network are two example of bandwidth stretched to the limit.

As for netbeui, it can sometimes be useful to use this protocol as Hawk suggested, as part of dagnostics because there is much less to do do in setting up the client, it cuts the troubleshooting equation down to a smaller size. If Netbeui works then remove it and double check your IP settings.

It's alway better keeping the number of protocols whizzing arund the network to one, as that frees up bandwidth. So, with that in mind, (unless your a hardcore gamer)having IP on the PC alone is a better bet nowadays, purely because ICS (wheter MS or a 3rd party) is so easy and convenient.

Also, in case Pete does decide to hook up his network to the Internet ( I know he already has an BTOpenworld ADSL connection), then he needs to stick to the IANAreserved blocks for private networks:-

10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255 in class A
172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255 in class B
192.68.0.0 to 192.68.255.255 in class C

Pete
If you are going to use some of the NBTSTAT commands, such as the adaptor status command (NBTSTAT -a), then you have to input
the machine name of local host on your network So for instance if you had decided to call one of your PC's Llliy then the command would be NBTSTAT -a lilly

Type nbtstat /? for defenitions of all the nbtstat commands. By the way, you can also type nbstat in lower case, but the switches are case sensitive.

Hope you get sorted soon.
Rgds - Richard

[This message has been edited by Rich T (edited 12 May 2001).]

Hi,

I was in hospital the other day for an Op, so I'm still feeling the effects of the anaesthetic, which might be seen in my writing.

I agree there is still a lot of IPX out there in the world and it works fine, but I would be happier to see people using Novels own version of the IPX stack. I'm not knocking MS, but IPX is Novel's baby and they're are some quirks with the MS version.

After all, what good reason would there be, for two Englishmen to speak to each other in French?

Answers on a post card please.

Jim Bird.

Just switched one of my pc's to w2000 and struggled to get it connected to the network. W2000 defaulted WORKGROUP to "workgroup". As soon as I changed it to @home, a window pops up and says "Welcome to the @home Network". W2000 also has several layers of icons to click through to view other pc's! And of course W98se cant see NTFS.

www.video2stream.com

Mike

Over a network Win98 can see NTFS drives (If they are shared) no problems.

Mick

I changed the name of my workgroup to 'network' but that hasn't helped.

Okay, info time...

I have four PCs to connect (two Win98 and two Win2000). One of the machines (the Win98 one) is my 'home office' machine with a USB ADSL connection.

Right now I need to get two of them talking to each other as a priority before I connect the others. One of them is the office system, the other a rendering box.

OFFICE SYSTEM

• Win 98 SE
  
• Generic 10/100 Ethernet card bought from DABS (branded NetVin) - it appears in Network properties as NV100R II/III Fast Ethernet NIC
  
• IP Address: 192.168.0.0
  
• Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
  
• DNS Disabled
  [/list]

RENDER BOX

• Win2K Professional Edition
  
• SIS 900 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter (built onto motherboard
  
• IP: 192.168.0.1
  
• Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
  
• DNS Disabled
  [/list]

Hub is a D-Link DES 1005D - Five port 10/100.

All help appreciated.

Thanks again,

Pete

quote:Originally posted by Jim Bird:
Hi,

I was in hospital the other day for an Op, so I'm still feeling the effects of the anaesthetic, which might be seen in my writing.

I agree there is still a lot of IPX out there in the world and it works fine, but I would be happier to see people using Novels own version of the IPX stack. I'm not knocking MS, but IPX is Novel's baby and they're are some quirks with the MS version.

After all, what good reason would there be, for two Englishmen to speak to each other in French?

Answers on a post card please.

Jim Bird.

Hi Jim - I trust you are well again after your Op.

I fully agree with your statement about two people speaking french - however the defacto protocol for games is IPX. And MS's versio ain't bad.

Home networks are all the rage now, and while IPX in business is steadily decreasing, it will increase in the home sector purely becuase of LAN games, until the games manufactures move onto another protocol.

Pete,

What would be really useful is for you to attach some screen dumps of your network settings (zip the BMP's or convert to jpg). Maybe that suggestion won't work as you can't attach files on UBB can you?

Is that a feature that has been turned off on this forum, or is it not a feature of UBB?

Ohter boards I frequent look very similar to UBB, but you can post attachements. An extremely useful feature and often used.

Cheers - Rich.

Pete,

First of all check device manger Network Adaptors, (especially on the Win98 machine, 2000 is very good on network Adaptors so should be ok) you will no what to look for the number of DV work you’ve done, the ! etc..

Then type in at the c:\ in a MSDOS window as below (on the Win2000 machine)

C:\>ipconfig /all

The following or something similar should come up, and will depend on you system.

Windows 2000 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pbcmick
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . : PDCMick
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : PDCMick

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 23-R0-YY-99-7A-C2
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
192.168.0.2

If all that comes up is as below then your network card is not installed

C:\>ipconfig /all

Windows 2000 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pbcmick
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . : PDCMick
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Do the same for the Win98 machine but use START then RUN then type in winipcfg
The info should be similar to above but more graphical, make sure that using the drop down arrow that the network card is selected, and not PPP etc..

Once we have confirmed this is ok we can move to stage 2.

Mick

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 12 May 2001).]

Hi Pete,

First thing, 192.168.0.0 is not a valaid network address it is the reserved broadcast address for the local sub-net you are on, 192.168.0.255 is also reserved, don't use it either.

With the sub-net mask you are using you can have 254 hosts on this network. i.e 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.0.254.

From this example you can see that the first 3 octets 192.168.0 are the network address and the 4th octet is the host address with 0 and 255 reserved.

You can take it as read that you can not have 2 hosts with the same address (duplicate network address).

Fix this mistake for starters and we'll go from there.

Jim Bird.

[This message has been edited by Jim Bird (edited 12 May 2001).]

Thanks for your patience, Mick!

Looking in Device Manager, I can see no problems or conflicts with the Network cards.

Under Win98, I get the following:

HOST NAME: OFFICE
DNS SERVERS: 213.120.62.98
Node Type: Broadcast
IP Routing Enabled: No
WINS Proxy Enabled: No
NETBIOS RESOLUTION UNDER DNS: No

Ethernet Adapter Information:
Description: NDIS 5.0 Driver (I assume this is the one to look at and not PPP Adapter)
Adapter Address: 19-02-16-08-00-00
IP Address: 192.168.0.0
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

Everything else is greyed out.

Win 2000 Machine:

Host Name: render
Primary DNS Suffix: blank
Node type: broadcast
IP Routing enabled: No
Wins Proxy enabled: No

Ethernet Adapter local area connections:
Connection-specific DNS suffix: blank
Description: SiS 900 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter
Physical Address: 00-EO-06-F3-83-E4
DHCP Enabled: No
IP Address: 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: blank
DNS servers: 192.168.0.0

Thanks again,

Pete

I agree with Jim IP Address: 192.168.0.0 is wrong

Set the Win 98SE puter to 192.168.0.1, the rest of the network to 2,3 etc.

I use ICS & this is where I got my info from http://www.infinisource.com/techfiles/ics-install.html

Check your NIC drivers are OK, I once had a duff driver situation where they were dated 1980, updted them & problem fixed.

John Price
http://www.johnpr98.com

Thanks, I changed the IP of the Win98 machine to 02, and rebooted, but still no joy.

Drivers on the ethernet cards are dated 5-3-2000 and 08/11/2000.

I'll have a scout for newer versions.

Thanks again,

Pete

Hi,

Yes change the IP address 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.0.2

And if it still does not work, then, read my earlier post with regards to drivers and 10/MBses half-duplex and 100/MBsec full duplex

And get your self a crossed Cat-5 patch lead, it can be very handy.

Jim Bird.

[This message has been edited by Jim Bird (edited 12 May 2001).]

This is entertaining,

I typed the model of my network card into Google, and it gave me the following URL: http://www.rpti.com.tw/drivers.htm

This took me to a 404 error, so I went to the root site, http://www.rpti.com.tw/ whereupon I got the following message:

quote:
f*ck USA Government

f*ck PoizonBOx

contact:sysadmcn@yahoo.com.cn

Don't you just love the internet?

Pete

Hi, Here's the latest:

I can ping the Windows 2000 machine from the Win98 box

But I can't ping the Windows 98 box from the Windows 2000 machine.

Ideas please?

Ta much,

Pete

Hi Pete,

Try typing in the following command on each machine.

PING LOCALHOST

Jim Bird.

Hi Pete

On this machine change the host name "render" to capitals "RENDER"

For historical reasons, it's always a good idea in my opinion, to carry out all network configurations using capitals.

Be consistent, as some software is case sensitive and in the old days host names hadto be written in CAPS.

Win 2000 Machine:
Host Name: render

I had named the machine in caps, but the name appears in lower case when I call up info on it. It still shows up as caps when I look at the settings in Windows.

I didn't think any more of it - DOS commands and all that...

PING LOCALHOST works fine with both machines.

Pete

If you haven't set up a shared item on the windows 98 machine then windows 2000 will not show anything in network neighborhood.

you must have file and printer sharing enabled and an item i.e disk , folder , or printer shared before it will 'appear'.

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

Already done that - no luck though.

And I still can't ping the Windows 98 machine from the Win2K box.

Pete

Hi Pete,

Go to this machine and ping it's own host IP address. PING (own IP address)

Stay on this machine and ping it's own host name. PING RENDER

Win 2000 Machine:
Host Name: render

Next

Go to this machine and ping it's own host IP address. PING (own IP address)

Stay on this machine and ping it's own host name. PING OFFICE

Under Win98, I get the following:
HOST NAME: OFFICE

Jim Bird

Hi everyone,

I got my answer, but I'm not home free yet.

The solution was obvious, but never occurred to me.

It was the bloody firewall software!

With Zone Alarm disabled I can see the other computer on the network. No problem.

All I need to do now is find a way to use the network with Zone Alarm switched on.

Again, all help appreciated!

Cheers,

Pete

quote:Originally posted by pcwells:
Hi everyone,

I got my answer, but I'm not home free yet.

The solution was obvious, but never occurred to me.

It was the bloody firewall software!

With Zone Alarm disabled I can see the other computer on the network. No problem.

All I need to do now is find a way to use the network with Zone Alarm switched on.

Again, all help appreciated!

Cheers,

Pete

I don't use zonealarm , i use blackice , but i can set blackice to ignore requests from certain machines ( i.e. don't alarm )therefore allowing them total access.

the setting is TRUST INTRUDER ... you may find your software has a similar setting.

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

Well well (no pun intended) a firewall was the problem (a learning process for us all).

Ok what you need to set up on you Internet PC, is either some sort of proxy server software, or ICS that comes with Win98.

If you follow this link it will take you through the steps, a lot better than I can, www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharemethod.htm

Hope this helps in you quest to share you Internet connection, but the best way to go in my opinion is a dedicated router like Linksys, or Netgear, you can find out more about these at the above site too.

As for the patience Pete, after seeing the patience you Guys have on this site, and the amount I have learnt I think giving a little back is what makes Forums worthwhile.

Mick

Thanks Mick!

Pete

errrm,

That was quite an important piece of infomation that you left out. Shame on you.

Glad it's all sorted though.

Tim

Well, I've had ADSL installed for the best part of a year, and Zone Alarm just happily sits in the background and doesn't bother me.

If I'd registered that it was there, I would have clocked onto the problem sooner.

Normally I don't do anything so foolish. For wxample, I never complain about dropped frames when I've neglected to enable DMA, and I never plug my monitor into the wrong socket of my G400 graphics card...

Honestly!

Pete

I have just finished installing W2000 on the same drive for the 8th time (long and sad story). This PC is on a lan with 2 other w98se pcs and the only things that has gone right each time are IE works immediatly and after adding netbeui protocal, my network works...every time. W2000 is slugguish about finding the other pc's compared with W98se, and there are more layers of icons to click thru. The only change I make during setup is the name of the workgroup. This part of the setup is so automatic it is scary! I am suggesting you possible have corrupted things with your efforts (as I have other things) and to start over.

Hi,

Take a look at the length of this thread, some people take months to resolve (or not resolve) networking issues and often the small simple, but not so obvious items which are easily overlooked.

That's why I purchased a protocol analyser, with a built-in expert system. It sure makes short work of all these problems.

Jim Bird.

Pete,

To configure ZoneAlarm so that the PCs on a network can communicate, bring up the ZoneAlarm settings option, click on security and set the "Local" security level to "Low".

Bob C (Sorry, I should have thought to mention ZoneAlarm myself when we talked about the problem!!!)

Jim

The PA sounds briill, oh and how much?

Also try NetXray or Sniffer Pro for software.

Mick

Now it's my turn to ask for help!

I had Internet Connection Sharing working sweetly. This was with my (newly upgraded to Win2K) main home PC acting as the server for the rest of the networking, and with the other PCs even able to get the Win 2K machine to dial up for them if it wasn't on line.

There was one little problem - none of the Win98SE machines could access the Win 2K machine's HDDs or printers - but I wasn't too worried about that (this is still a problem but not the substantive one, so I'd still appreciate suggestions), so I pressed on, thinking it would be a good idea to change the network card in the Win2K machine to one with wake-on-lan capabilities.

Trouble is, having changed the card, none of the other machines can access the internet.

I have Zone Alarm Pro installed but it's not a Zone Alarm problem, I think, because none of the other machines can get on the net even if Zone Alarm isn't running.

My guess is that I should, perhaps, have used Win2K's hardware unistaller in Control Panel before removing the other network card, but I didn't.

I initially tried to use the same IP address for the new card under ICS, and Windows advised against it (in case the other card was ever installed in the PC at the same time).

However, I pressed on, and then found I had a problem, so I changed the IP address but still no joy.

Suggestions greatfully received.

Cheers

Bob C

Bob

I can't help but I have the same problem

The client machine can't access the printer because of a password requirement, Everything I have checked is shared on Win 2K although I can't see the clients name anywhere.

No firewall installed at the moment to cause my problem.

ICS is fine (I have stopped people dialing though)

My son has been doing his nut here because he wants to print stuff from Illustrator for Uni, I went back to dual boot 98 for him to do that when I was looking for Bill Clinton (It was me stood on top of the wall behind the reporter on the BBC1 news Saturday night, only a small spec in the distance).

I will be checking this sharing issue myself soon, never thought about posting here

John Price
http://www.johnpr98.com

[This message has been edited by johnpr98 (edited 28 May 2001).]

Bob,

Couple of Q's

Does the Win2k machine dial when accessed locally, I presume so as you probably wouldn't be sending the above.

Can you ping or communicate with this machine from the other clients in any way what so ever. If so connectivity is not the problem.

You have gloated numorous times over your ADSL connection. Having never had the opportunity to have one at home, how does it dial. I was under the impression that it was permanently connected via a network card to an ADSL box, a bit like cable modems.

I've never used connection sharing as I use MS Proxy server for all that. I would probably say disable the sharing and then re-enable it as it may have binded the old MAC address on the device that it uses to connect with.

Anyway, get back with more info and we'll get to the bottom of it.

Tim

quote:Originally posted by bcrabtree:
Now it's my turn to ask for help!
..............
There was one little problem - none of the Win98SE machines could access the Win 2K machine's HDDs or printers - but I wasn't too worried about that (this is still a problem but not the substantive one, so I'd still appreciate suggestions), so I pressed on, thinking it would be a good idea to change the network card in the Win2K machine to one with wake-on-lan capabilities...........

Suggestions greatfully received.

Cheers

Bob C

Bob , we have tried for months to get the sharing to work with 98 interogating 2000 but have come to the conclusion that it is better to set up a 98 machine as the 'server' and get the 2000 machines to interogate it.

It would appear that the security within 2000 is too tight to allow 98 access.

If you also set the 98 machine as gatekeeper it may sort all problems for you.

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

Hi,

Win2k Pro is very easy to share resources. With regard to security. If you have the drive formatted as NTFS you will have two levels of security namely share level and NTFS level (or local permissions). When accessing these resources over the network it will combine the permissions of both and se the most restrictive. ie if you have change permission at the share but full at NTFS level, you will only have change permission.

Anyway all security goes out of the window when you assign the everybody group to the resources which is the default for new files/folders/shares. So it should be as easy as rightclicking on the folder choose sharing and then the resource should appear under the remote computer name in network neighborhood, you can then right click and map a drive to it, or access it using the UNC path \\[computer name]\[share name]

If you want to access the drives directly like C or D create a share at this point and share the drive with everybody permissions. There are already hidden shares on these using the $ sign to make them hidden, but only administrators can access these and you are not likely wanting to logon to the share everytime you use it. More than one share can be created on one resource.

If you are going to use permissions then remember that the same accounts and passwords need to exist on the win9x clients as do reside in the Security Account Management (SAM) database on the Win2k pro machine. Win9x computers can add these users by going to start, settings, control panel, users (for Win98), passwords (for Win95), ME....???? probably the same as Win98. It's also probably worth noting that having the shared files on the same CPU as the modem share can be a bit risky even if using a firewall.

The only reason I could possibly see why you cannot use a Win2k pro as a small workgroup server is you have a name resolution problem. Ensure that they are in the same workgroup and that you can ping their computer names, not IP addresses. Remote Procedure Call (RPC) rely on netbios for communication, therefore without name resolution though art knackered. You shouldn't need to use LMHOST/HOSTS files for resolution as they will find each other via broadcast being on the same network. Obviously if its a big network then that's a no no, but in Bob's case it's only a couple of stringed together things.

Anyway, I've ramble enough.

Hope all goes well,

Tim

First of all Gary 100,000's of people share Windows all versions both ways 98 to 2K and 2K to 98 every day.

I am at present sharing 3 machines on a Home Network.

1. Win2K 2. Win98 3. Win98/Win 2K dual boot, all machines can access files on other machines, and the other 2 machines can print, to the Win2k machines 2 printers, one on a Parallel port the other on USB port. All three can access the Internet through a Gateway Router, then Cable Modem. I can then control any one of these machines from the Win2K machine using PCAnyware, although VNC, works well and is free www.uk.research.att.com/vnc

Right to share have a look here www.onecomputerguy.com/networking/sharing.htm

Point to note if any share is set up C$ etc add another share (the $ hides the share).

Bob your main problem, I would suggest uninstalling ICS, then the network cards in Device Manager, reboot and start again.

Mick

P.S.

Oh! the ones with password requirement. First check the dreive or folder is shared (right click on it and select sharing, make sure permissions is set as everyone.

If this still does not work, you need to set up a account on the Win2K machine (Using in Start Menu / Programs / Administrative Tools / Computer Manager, then Local Users and groups) Make a new user (use the Name and password you use to access the Win98 PC). Another option is to enable the Guest account in the same location. (This is dodgy though as anyone can access the PC).

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 28 May 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by johnpr98:
The client machine can't access the printer because of a password requirement, Everything I have checked is shared on Win 2K although I can't see the clients name anywhere.

Hi,

On Win2k go to start, settings, control panel, administrative tools, computer management, local users and groups, underthis right click on folder 'users' and choose new user. Put in the user name and password and take the tick out of 'must change password at next logon' Click OK user created.

[Added by Bob C - User name, here, is the name under which the user being added logs on when starting their own PC]

Right click on the printer make sure under security the everyone group has the print permission.

[Added by Bob C - Under Win2K, printers is available in Control Panel and by going via the Start menu>Settings>Printers]

Now you have to create the printer on the Win98 machine. Add the printer that is shared on the Win2k Pro, you will need to supply that user name and password you just created. You will also need the Win98 driver for the printer as the Win2k auto driver download will not work as they are different drivers.

To make it easier create the user name and password exactly the same on Win98 in control panel users. Log on as this user and it will use the same credentials when accessing the Win2k pro machine, therefore correctly authenticating you.

[Added by Bob C - One of my machines couldn't access the Win2K machine and it took a bit of a while to figure out why - it was because the default when the machine starts is to have no password. What I did was rename the related .pwl file in the Windows folder. Within Windows, just search for "pwl", without the quote marks, and rename it - so SimonC.pwl on that machine was renamed to SimonC.waspwl. I then restarted the machine, logged on with the newly-created user name, put in the password and, BINGO!, that machine had access. What I have installed on all machines, too, is Microsoft's Tweak UI, which offers a whole load of useful things, including automatic insertion of user name and password when the PC boots. More details, plus the download (just 64KByte) from: [url="http://www.microsoft.com/ntworkstation/downloads/PowerToys/Networking/NTTweakUI.asp]"]http://www.microsoft.com/ntworkstation/downloads/PowerToys/Networking/NTTweakUI.asp][/url]

That's all there is to it.

In regard to not seeing the client, this is because you do not have file and print sharing enabled on the client machine and therefore does not take part in any network neighborhood browse lists (because it has no resources to share, makes sense really)

[Added by Bob C - for clarification, all you need to do here is right click in My Computer on the folder or drive you want to share (in my case, a folder called, "1shared", click on the Sharing tab, click in the radio button called "Share this folder", and give the folder (or drive) a meaningful name (get rid of the $ sign if one is there - this means, "do not share"!!!), then click on the "Permissions" button, and ensure that either you select "Everyone - and give them permission to do what you want them to do ie, either have Full Control, be able to "Change", or just "Read". Alternatively, you can click on the Add button when in the "Permissions" Windows and add from the list you'll then see, just the users you want to have access - again deciding what of the three things you are going to permit them to do.]

Again, I've waffled enough

Tim

[Added by Bob C - Tim, sorry for slightly hijacking your reply, but I thought that the extra details I've added will be most welcome by those who've not done much messing with networks before. Again, thanks for all your help]

[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 28 May 2001).]

quote:Originally posted by Hawk:
First of all Gary 100,000's of people share Windows all versions both ways 98 to 2K and 2K to 98 every day.

I am at present sharing 3 machines on a Home Network.

..........

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 28 May 2001).]

I have my home machines working , it's the work machines we can't get to work and i found out why .... they don't belong to the same workgroup.

If you can find me a way round that i would appreciate it !

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

Gary,

If they are set up as different Workgroups it should not matter you can still share between them.

What may be a problem is their IP address. In that they need to be on the same subnet eg: 255.255.255.0 (Unless you go through a router for different workgroups).

quote:Originally posted by Hawk:
Gary,

If they are set up as different Workgroups it should not matter you can still share between them.

What may be a problem is their IP address. In that they need to be on the same subnet eg: 255.255.255.0 (Unless you go through a router for different workgroups).

It should but i'm not the only one who can't get it to work ......... A intranet manager , two senior network people , and a unix guru ...... all failed to get it to work across workgroups .... but we are also running novell ..........

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

It can still be done using novell, although you really are into the Domain model now rather, than peer to peer networks. Set up the GSN client on one of the MSWin PC's (the server) and if TCP/IP is not on the Novell machines, you will require IPX/SPX on the MSWin machine, then enable a account on the Novell server.

But hey who am I to talk if all those people can not get it working.

Mick

Hawk is right,

Being in the same workgroup is not fundamental, it just makes like a hell of a lot easier when on a home network.

Having Novell on the network shouldn't effect it really, as each workgroup elects a master browser for each protocol in use in the workgroup.

If you can ping the computer name, then as I said before name resolution is not the issue. If you cannot see the computer in the network neighborhood regardless of the workgroup you have a browsing problem. If you can see it over the network then you have a resource/share problem.

If you have more than one subnet at work, you'd need to tell us all about these as it's difficult to say. Also, note workgroups cannot span subnets, but NT domains can.

So if your workgroup is spanned across two subnets, you will have problems.

Get back to us all when you're at work, we may be able to help.

Tim

tim.callaghan,

What you are saying is NOT waffle - far from it.

I'm starting to work through your postings relating to my plea for help and have, by noting your comments, already managed to do something that I could never do before - print from all machines to the Epson Stylus Colour printer attached to my main PC (the Win 2K machine).

I've also now got access to that PC from all other PCs, too, which I'd had while running Win98 on the main machine but not had since upgrading that machine to Win2K.

I'll report back later about the substantive problem - no internet connection sharing from the other machines.

Thanks VERY much.

By the way, I suspect you'll already have figure out how my mind is racing now about the need for a substantial tutorial series about migrating from Win9x to Win2K!

And, I also guess you'll have figured out who I want to write it!

This would be VERY worthwhile and is something that I think we also ought to make available on the web!

Later

Bob C

BINGO!

Internet Connection Sharing up and running!

Following Tim's instuctions about disabling and renabling Internet Connection Sharing did the trick!!! Fanks!

Here's a step-by-step walk through:

What I did was right-click on My Network Place, right-click on the BTopenworld icon; click on the Sharing tab; Untick "Enable Internet Connection Sharing for this connection"; okay out of the dialogue, then go back and re-enable it.

All works fine, now, and other machines can get the Win2K machine to dial-up and connected automatically, simply by attempting to access the internet (running Internet Explorer, for instance).

Lovely stuff!

Oh, Tim.c - for completeness's sake (and because there are further questions arising), I've included here your initial questions and my replies:
-------------
Bob,
Couple of Q's

Does the Win2k machine dial when accessed locally, I presume so as you probably wouldn't be sending the above.

++++++++++++++++
Er, I think I've answered that above
++++++++++++++++
Can you ping or communicate with this machine from the other clients in any way what so ever. If so connectivity is not the problem.
++++++++++++++++
Er, didn't bother trying, but doubtless I can.
++++++++++++++++

You have gloated numorous times over your ADSL connection.
++++++++++++++++
Harsh words! True, but harsh!
++++++++++++++++
Having never had the opportunity to have one at home, how does it dial.
+++++++++++++++++++++
It doesn't dial as such, it just connects when you tell it to (or automatically if you've set it to do that when, say, IE5 runs).
+++++++++++++++++
I was under the impression that it was permanently connected via a network card to an ADSL box, a bit like cable modems.
++++++++++++++++++++
No, I've got the cheap and nasty version - using a USB modem. It would be permanently on if the PC were permanently on (and I'd already connected to the net), but this is a modem that connects to a single machine, not a device that is connected to the local network and thus accessible to any machine on that network. The PC to which the modem is connected must be on.

That leads me to the question about wake-on-LAN (and is the reason why I want to implement it!).

Does anyone have any tips about installing wake-on-LAN network cards so that they actually work?

The PC's Bios supports its (and has, I think, been properly enabled - though I'd be happy to hear advice!), but there are two question marks:

1/ The motherboard manual sort of half implied - in a drawing - that the card should be installed in one particular PCI slot - the one nearest the wake-on-lan connector on the motherboard. It implied it, though, only in the sense that there was a dotted line around that PCI slot and not around any of the others. There was nothing there saying - "NIC must be in this slot!"

I can check this by moving cards around, but (in the light of the grief I had after changing the network card), I'm not keen to do this unless I'm told that the network card MUST be in a particular slot.

2/ The motherboard manual says that for this to work, the power supply must be up to it - providing a certain voltage to the board when in standby mode. How the hell can I check that?

++++++++++++++++
I've never used connection sharing as I use MS Proxy server for all that. I would probably say disable the sharing and then re-enable it as it may have binded the old MAC address on the device that it uses to connect with.
++++++++++++++++
That did the trick, as mentioned above, thanks muchly!!!!
++++++++++++++++
Anyway, get back with more info and we'll get to the bottom of it.
++++++++++++++++
I'm on the bottom, now and gloating!!!

++++++++++++++++
Tim
================

Bob C

Further Questions arising:

1/ Should I open a "Migrating to Win2K" forum?

2/ I'd be keen to better understand passwords. The particular thing I'd like to know is: How can I ensure that passwords here don't expire? I have access to the local password options, but am told when I set these to "not expire" that this may not work if [higher] domain level options are set for the password to expire after a certain number of days.

Oh, and, of course, I do understand that in some business enviroments it is necessary to have changing passwords but here, at home, there is nothing of worth on any of the machines, so I simply want to avoid the inconvenience of passwords expiring.

Bob C (much relieved!)

quote:Originally posted by Hawk:
It can still be done using novell, although you really are into the Domain model now rather, than peer to peer networks. Set up the GSN client on one of the MSWin PC's (the server) and if TCP/IP is not on the Novell machines, you will require IPX/SPX on the MSWin machine, then enable a account on the Novell server.

But hey who am I to talk if all those people can not get it working.

Mick

I wasn't implying that you couldn't do it, only that people here who should know how to do it couldn't.( and I as a video guy was having problems with the work machines.)

I found an answer on the web (which i emailed to bob), which stated that without the same workgroup it wouldn't work.

As i said i can get it to work at home, it's just at work with the combination of Novell, win98, windows2000, that it doesn't work at the moment. (oh yes and ZENWORKS).
My machine ,and all the other machines , is set up to use tcpip, & ipx/spx.

We are all routed thru routers, hubs, between two different sub-nets, one private & one fixed and we believe that it is the mixture that is causing the problem.

We have had this system for two years and it was only last week at a conference that the administrators for each site were reminded to switch on priority packet traffic switches on the routers/hubs.

Our staff didn't even know the system was capable of this and they all have Novell certification.

Personally at work I set up a ftp server on my windows2000 machine to allow others to pick up files by ftp rather than file-sharing.

When I get a chance I’ll try out some of these suggestions ………. When I finish editing my 5 student projects at a running time of over 40 hours of original material.

Thanks for the hints.

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

Mick,

In regard to your question to Gary about the ftp server. You don't have to share the files in an Windows sense. In fact you never share files anyway, you create shared directories where files reside that are for shared access.

The same applies for ftp, you set a directory to be used in ftp and then IP does the rest. If Gary is unable to get sharing working at the Netbios/RPC level then ftp is a perfectly valid way of doing it, if not a little inefficient, RPC is much quicker. In this setup Gary does not need to share anything, to allow ftp to access as you put it. You simply configure IIS or PWS to point to a directory for use in ftp, and that's it. From there you can allow anonymous access or use NTFS permissions to lock down files.

It's not the best way to do it, but it works.

Also, I think Gary was only pointing out the calibre of his staff by reffering to their Novell certification, like most people with certifications they usually know s#!t loads more than what they've got on paper and it's suprising when they don't know something, unless they went the boot camp root.

I thought your reply to Gary was a bit negative. We're all passionate about our networking (sad isn't it) especially me as I make my living out of it.

Your question 1 didn't make sense to me until I read it a couple of times, and that's because you've either worded it really badly, or your just completely wrong.

Question 2 was a waste of time. You're only gonna P!55 people off with that kind of question/statement, unless you truly were curious (but I think not)

And your closing statement was a bit off, as Gary never mentioned Zenworks being an OS. Me thinx you're scraping the barrel.

Any way, reading you're previous posts I have been impressed with your level and knowledge of networking and other things and I think you are an intelligent individual who can contribute a lot to this board and it's members.

Just don't get so eat up.

Tim

Ps- you may never have meant to come over negative, but in that case, you have a funny way of putting things.

Tim,

Thanks for pointing out the above, after reading your comments I agree that it was negative, and for that I apologise.

Mick

P.S. ever thought of being a Moderator

quote:Originally posted by tim.callaghan:
Mick,

Also, I think Gary was only pointing out the calibre of his staff by reffering to their Novell certification, like most people with certifications they usually know s#!t loads more than what they've got on paper and it's suprising when they don't know something, unless they went the boot camp root.
.

Hi Tim - sorry, but I had to giggle a bit when I read the above.

I don't know about Warrington, but I'm an IT contractor specialising in City of London stockbroker dealing rooms and down here certification means "diddly sqaut" if you don't have the experience to back it up. If you can't fix the problem fast, you're history, no matter how certified you are. Problem is that with certification course costing between £3,000 to £5,000 on average, too many sharks have moved into the market after easy money, and there are too many "Certificated" engineers that have no idea, fresh out of "boot camp" and have no experience of Enterprise conditions.

Keep up the good work on the forum, you don't look down or belittle, and you document well.

Cheers - Richard.

Hi Richard,

It's a good job I've been certified since 1997 then and about 6 years in the industry. I find certification helps you get your foot in the door, but then it's how many hair nets and name tags you have that gets you the job. Warrington is a bit of a sleepy hollow, but I got back from Oz last year, and I'm just about getting back on my feet, and it made sense to go back to my home town.

My contract is up end of June and I'm having about 8 weeks holiday before I go looking again, probably in the Manchester area, as long as they pay enough

You mentioned fixing problems fast, don't you know where the off/on button is LOL

Anyway good luck on the job, I'll give London a miss though I think, I couldn't afford the coffee bill!!

Tim

Hi - I envy your 8 week holiday - I had to give up my 4 holidays a year (normally 3 months total per annum - one of the benefits of contracting - no holidays limits) then I got married and had children....ahh, I still dream of those holidays now...

Yes the price of coffee in London is extortionate

quote:Originally posted by Hawk:
Gary a couple of Questions:

1. Why have ftp on a local server to share files, as you have to share the file to allow the ftp to access them?

2.What has Novell certifiaction got to do with understanding priority packet traffic switches on the routers/hubs? this is more a Cisco/Nortel Cert requirement.

Also ZenWorks is part of the Novell package not a separate OS.

Mick

1.FTP is a service on my local machine, I’m not running a win2000 server, sorry if you picked it up that way

2. Novell certification in my mind means that they have to pass a level of networking competence, (and I’m not claiming I have it) but without priority packet enabled what guarantee does an administrator have that his commands are getting through the log-jams and shutting down services / print queues etc , when they should ?

3. As I’m not a Novell guy I assumed zenworks was an add-on (or at least a separate component), others using Novell don’t use zenworks , including other sites within our network ?

------------------
Gary MacKenzie
Audio Visual Technician
(email me if you want a quick reply)

I have success also

Thanks to Tim for the instructions & BobC for the extra bits.

My biggest problem was the network name on the Windows 98 machine.

Double & triplecheck it is the answer, I thought it was correct, the puter didn't.
When it was correct it worked.

Regards to all

John Price
http://www.johnpr98.com

John,

Glad to know you're sorted too.

I'm really starting to like Win 2K and rather hoping I'll be able to become as familiar with it soon as I am with 98.

As for Tim, what can I say?

Well, I could say that I'm hoping that Tim is going to write some articles for CV about migrating to Win2K and optimising Win2K!

He seems to be willing.

I'm also trying to talk him into writing a bunch of reviews, but he's put up all sorts of silly barriers, like not have a DV camcorder just yet!

;)

Bob C

Sweet,

Does that mean you'll buy me one!! until I'm flush

Tim

(Tim who hath just enough room on Visa card for XM1 but shouldeth knowest better) don't anybody tell me I should!

possibly reverse psychology, I dunno .......aahhhhhhh I'm going mad!!

Tim,

This is one of those dreadful egg-chicken-egg situations.

You won't be flush until you have a DV camcorder and start writing reviews for me but you can't start writing reviews until you have a DV camcorder.

What you could do, though, is start writing stuff that doesn't involve a DV camcorder, to produce the cash to buy one.

Blimey, did I actually suggest someone could significantly improve their financial position by writing for CV? If so, I apologise for the lie.

Bob C