upgrade invalidates warranty

Ray,

Before doing anything else ensure your proposed motherboard is going to be compatible with any Video Editing software packages you are going to use in the future.

Be aware that changing the motherboard will almost certainly require other component changes *memory, Power Supply* in particular. You may find that the memory is physically compatible between the old board and new board, you should ensure that you do not lose out any performance gain to be had by moving to the new board but retaining the old memory.

You also need to consider cooling, putting a faster system into existing box will put a strain on the ventilation of the existing case. If your existing motherboard offers probe or diagnosis software to monitor temperature, use this to determine how the case currently performs and compare it to the manufacturers recommendations, if it's running hot already you're going to need to think about additional ventilation or a new case.

A few sensible precautions will help ensure you get the best out the system and ensure it's reliability and that the Computer Editing hobby doesn't turn into Computer maintenance hobby.

My single experience of PC World tech support wasn't fantastic, and I wouldn't really lose much sleep about walking away from that, However I'm sure others will be along to correct me.

Carl

[This message has been edited by CarlR (edited 31 December 2003).]

Ray

Forgetting about the warranty for a moment, if you have a Pa***rd B**l you will find that changing the motherboard will have a lot of "follow on" problems as the above manufacturer tends to use many non-standard components including power supply connections and sometimes on-board audio & video plus connections to the outside world like USB etc and thats forgetting about new memory modules and a processor.

My advise buy new and sell the old one if you feel that you need a more powerfull machine.

Good luck

Paul W. H

Sell the old one if you can and buy a new one without extended warranty, and use the money saved to buy a top line machine from a dealer who is not intent on making money on the warranty!!

I've always been of the opinion that a 5 year warranty on something that's regarded as a Dinosaur in a mere 2 years just makes no sense - unless it's free of coarse. I'm surprised Ray that PCW don't regard your previous upgrades as invalidating the warranty. Unless they did them?

Thanks for all your replies. Yes it is a pa****d b*** and yes pc world did the upgrades because the warranty says I can have 4 free upgrades( the labour only)
You all seem to be of the opinion to change the computer.
There is one slight problem and she is downstairs cooking my dinner.
I was going the upgrade route cos it seemed easier than transfering everything on to a new computer,but from what you say , I would have more problems keeping the old one.
I will take heed of what you all say and start looking around.

Cheers folks, Happy new year.

Ray Maher

I was in a similar situation about a year ago - with a 1ghz Gateway. I stripped this apart and took out all the hardware that I wanted in my new system. (Before doing so - I made a driver disk for all the bits!)
I then listed what I wanted to upgrade / or needed new. Drove to Maplins, bought all the bits for £230 quid and 4 hours later I was installing XP in my new fast PC.

The self build and taking all the good bits from your old PC is also worth considering.

------------------
Spready
2000+ Athlon XP, MSI KT3V Motherboard, 728Mb DDR Ram, 10gb Boot & 80Gb video drives, Sony DRU500 DVD/RW.
Win XP Pro, Premiere 6.5, Scenalyzer Live, OHCI Firewire, DVD Workshop, Sony TRV80 Camera

quote:Originally posted by Spready:
I was in a similar situation about a year ago - with a 1ghz Gateway. I stripped this apart and took out all the hardware that I wanted in my new system. (Before doing so - I made a driver disk for all the bits!)
I then listed what I wanted to upgrade / or needed new. Drove to Maplins, bought all the bits for £230 quid and 4 hours later I was installing XP in my new fast PC.

The self build and taking all the good bits from your old PC is also worth considering.

Thanks Spready

Can I put my hard discs with all their info on them into the new computer and keep my old 648 memory as well.

Ray Maher

Just a few observations.

1) PB computers as mentioned are somewhat like Dell in that they use proprietory components and as such may not be suitable for "normally" available items.
2) Doing a re-build as suggested is a worthy thing to do BUT to simply transfer your HDDs is not the best thing to do with the system HDD - this will have all the drivers and associated softare unique to the PB. Now, there are methods that purport to avoid the need to format the C drive but in my experience it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. I ended up reformating and starting from scratch.
3) IMHO - make an inventory of the useable parts, a list of what you need for the new build & where there is a cross over e.g. the sound card make sure you have the drivers to hand for such parts ready for the new build. Also, keep in view that newer motherboards may not be able to utilise 3 year old RAM memory or if it can it might be like feeding a greyhound dustbin scraps.

Lastly, setting aside the cost you could of course pare down the old PB to basic internet surfing machine and put the most useful bits (the newest HDD) into the new one.

HTH

PS Ray, I see you are in Oxted. I live over Guildford way, if you need to chat about anything (do not claim to be a Guru but everything I have built so far is AOK)drop me an e-mail.

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 01 January 2004).]

The only thing I have ever put into a computer is a sound card so for me to build my own would be quite a task. I would like to be able to but not sure I have the confidence to do do it. I know enough to use the computer for my hobby of video editing and other basic functions but not enough of the technical side to get my head round building one.

Ray Maher

Ray
As long as you do your homework on compatability, collect all the drivers you will need etc. you can build your own PC.
I bought my first PC which was built by a local shop. 18 months later I took a deep breath and bought a new mobo, cpu etc and upgraded it for NLE. (Raptor + Premiere 5)

I am now on my 3rd upgrade and have built 2 others for my family. It really is not that difficult now with internet access, forums like this etc.

By the way. I am 63
Good luck and go for it.
John

------------------
------------------------
WindowsXP Pro, Athlon XP2100+, 1GB DDR RAM, Epox 8KA7+ mobo, Maxtor 60gb and 80gb HDs, GeForce4 4MMX 64MB graphics, CD-R and CD-RW, Hercules Game Theater 7.1, Storm2, Canopus Edius 1.51, Canon XM1.

quote:Originally posted by John Farrar:
Ray
As long as you do your homework on compatability, collect all the drivers you will need etc. you can build your own PC.
I bought my first PC which was built by a local shop. 18 months later I took a deep breath and bought a new mobo, cpu etc and upgraded it for NLE. (Raptor + Premiere 5)

I am now on my 3rd upgrade and have built 2 others for my family. It really is not that difficult now with internet access, forums like this etc.

By the way. I am 63
Good luck and go for it.
John

Thanks John,
I am 59 and it's things like collect all the drivers that leave me blank. I know how to update and why you need them but as for finding them ,I am in the dark.
I must admit though so long as I have still got my old computer working I have nothing to lose.

Ray Maher

Ray, I'm pretty much a "monkey see, monkey do" type. I've built 2 PC's from scratch now, & done serious upgrades on others. All the info you need is either here on this forum, or elsewhere on the net. As long as you do your homework, you'll be fine. I was 49 when I built my first PC (For my daughter to take to University). All from 2nd hand parts. BIG sense of achievement!!

Do I need to know anything about dos cos I can't get my head round that at all.

Ray Maher

quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
Do I need to know anything about dos cos I can't get my head round that at all.

Ray Maher

DOS is not required for any new build.

Your other comment is right - that to keep a working PC is the best idea.

Building a PC these days if a bit like a combination of Meccanno & Lego with care and common sense during the process. It is certainly nothing to fear. The hardest part is the careful choice of components to suit what you want to achieve as the end result but there are plenty of folk here with newer motherboards than my P4 Intel 845E based one. Who can suggest a good (current) specification.

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 01 January 2004).]

Ok,so I first have to buy a case to put it in. Does the spec I want determine the sort of case I buy.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray

Forgive me if I state the obvious etc.

1) Case to take ATX motherboard - there are a wide range of makes but the one to choose will depend on how many drives you will eventually need ~ Hard disk as well as optical (DVD or CD): i.e. how many bays or drive locations. Brands ~ Antec, Chieftec, Lian Li & others???
2) Power Supply Unit (PSU) - some cases will include a PSU but personally I buy a separate PSU such as an Enermax, Antec or the newest quiet model by Zalman. Depending on just how much kit you are likely to include get at least a 400watt unit.
3) Motherboard - good makes are Gigabyte, Asus and Abit (others also good but my experience with these makes has been pleasant). The choice will depend on whether you need to match to any hardware compatiblity aspects e.g. Raptor (other experienced folk speak up here)
3a) Choice of Intel Pentium or AMD Athlon processor and what speed.
4) Graphics card - again wide choice but IMO nVidia based ones are less trouble than ATI based ones.
5) Hard drives - minimum of 2 ~ as often stated here keep one just for the video files. Brands ~ Westen Digital and Maxtor seem to lead the pack.
6) OS - WinXp seems to be flavour of choice now but I have recently setup dual boot Win98 and Win 2000 Pro. I will be migrating my graphic and video applications to the W2K "section".
7) Memory - minimum of 512MB of the highest speed rated for the motherboard. Brands ~ Crucial, Corsair......!
8) DVD writer? again like the HDDs personal choices come into play - very happy with my Sony DRU500A

This hits the high spots of areas that need the research.

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 01 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 01 January 2004).]

I have an external pioneer 106 so one other writer for copying should do. I am lost on the power supply question and would need to seek advice.Two 80 gig hard drives would be nice. I had all the usb , firewire,mouse keyboard etc connections on my old computer when I bought it and so know nothing about installing these.Do you buy boards with them incorporated . Am I making this more difficult than it really is.

Ray Maher

quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
I have an external pioneer 106 so one other writer for copying should do. I am lost on the power supply question and would need to seek advice.Two 80 gig hard drives would be nice. I had all the usb , firewire,mouse keyboard etc connections on my old computer when I bought it and so know nothing about installing these.Do you buy boards with them incorporated . Am I making this more difficult than it really is.

Ray Maher

Ray

There is nothing wrong with asking what about what concerns you.

Assuming a standard ATX motherboard (there are some exotic exceptions) ~ will have the following connectors: - PS2 keyboard and mouse, USB 2off [version2 is typical now], parralel (printer), serial (RS232). These are the basic "set".

Then you look at spec for Firewire, LAN as external connectors.

In respect of "internal connectors" the things to look out for are (based on my current system chosen for this) ATA/RAID (this has allowed me to add additional HDD on their own IDE channel (NOTE I do not use RAID at all it is the ATA function I wanted)so there is no sharing master and slave. On more modern boards you get SATA connector for the latest versions of the HDD.

Sorry, if the above confuses but what I am trying get across is you need to be able to say what it is you would like as your specification, especially if it includes something like the Canopus Raptor (or other such types) of cards that have compatibilty issues to be taken into account. Because the "heart" of the new system will be the motherboard and it's choice will be influenced by just what it is you want to attach to it.

So, do not feel awkward listing even the "common" items. Keep in view it will pay to think ahead and note what you might/will want to add in the future as upgrades.

Laurence

It seems like I am actually going to find out how a computer works,should be quite a learning curve.
Each reply is telling me a little more I didn't know.
Thanks for your help.

Ray Maher.

This is an idea of what I want.

Pentium4 3 GHz
512MB DDR ram
2x80GB Hard discs.
128mb NVidia( or suggestions for good card)
2/3 usb
2/3 firewire.
DVD rom drive.
I Have an external Pioneer 106D
I use pinnacle studio 8 to edit and movie factory to author.
I also have Nero.
If I have left anything out let me know as i am not sure of all the stuff I need.
I have the xp home upgrade disc as I had ME already on the computer but no disc.

Ok ,that's a start.

Ray Maher.

Hi
Before you rush out and get a load of new stuff to rebuild, there is another option if you can afford it. Leave your existing computer in situ, but add or cause to be added, a network card. Get the new computer of your dreams to use for video editing networked in, and use the old one for every day tasks, internet, extra storage for video files etc, applications that might cause problems etc. I've done this in the past, going from 433 P2 celeron, to 800 P3, and am about to network a 3rd one in, when I can finally decide on the spec. With a combined total of 240G hard drive space, I still sometimes run out of space! Where its very useful to use a setup like this, though is to leave one rendering and to work on the other. Its funny how each time, the new computer is much faster, has much more capacity, does more than you ever thought it possible to do, yet costs less than its predecessor!

quote:Originally posted by robbiebee:
Hi
Before you rush out and get a load of new stuff to rebuild, there is another option if you can afford it. Leave your existing computer in situ, but add or cause to be added, a network card. Get the new computer of your dreams to use for video editing networked in, and use the old one for every day tasks, internet, extra storage for video files etc, applications that might cause problems etc. I've done this in the past, going from 433 P2 celeron, to 800 P3, and am about to network a 3rd one in, when I can finally decide on the spec. With a combined total of 240G hard drive space, I still sometimes run out of space! Where its very useful to use a setup like this, though is to leave one rendering and to work on the other. Its funny how each time, the new computer is much faster, has much more capacity, does more than you ever thought it possible to do, yet costs less than its predecessor!

Thanks for prompt reply Robie,
I hope you don't need another monitor.
Is networking straightforeward to set up and use.
Is there any downside.

Ray Maher

Hi
No, you don't need another monitor, you use a simple Belkin Data transfer switch box, cable from monitor to box at the back, and a cable from each commputer to the front of the switch box, then just switch from A to B as required. Be careful when buying, though, there are several different sorts, and my experience of PC World staff is that its difficult to find anyone who actually knows what you mean. Try a small computer shop - they'll have them in stock and will explain exactly how to set it up, and what cables you will want.
Using a network is very easy, but I didn't fit the cards myself. You can specify that you want one in a new computer, and purchase a matching one and cabling from a local PC builder, who would probably install and sort out the network for you. It would not mean opening your new computer. My local builder has just built my husband a 2nd computer, and set up his network as part of the service. Its probably not hard to do yourself, but firewall/internet security software can cause problems for the inexperienced. If you are unsure about using a network, you can probably get a demonstration at your local library or computer workshop.

I can see a problem arising Ray.
You say you have an XP upgrade disk but no ME disk as that os was already installed on your first computer.
Unfortunatly XP upgrade will ask for the original ME disk to be inserted in your cd drive to finish installation of XP.
You will probably have to buy a fresh copy of XP or whatever unless you can find someone with an old copy of WIN95/98 cheap.

Bernie

Ray, have a look here when you're ready http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/kl.asp?AvdID=1&CatID=44&GrpID=1&t=1397&l=2#C44

Some good deals, & they're a good company to deal with. At least you know that the MB, CPU, RAM, & fan are all compatible. & that's pretty much the 'heart' of the system.

[This message has been edited by Arthur.S (edited 04 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by bt:
I can see a problem arising Ray.
You say you have an XP upgrade disk but no ME disk as that os was already installed on your first computer.
Unfortunatly XP upgrade will ask for the original ME disk to be inserted in your cd drive to finish installation of XP.
You will probably have to buy a fresh copy of XP or whatever unless you can find someone with an old copy of WIN95/98 cheap.

Bernie

Bernie,
I did a 4 cd back up when I first got my computer which must have me on it. Is this a way round it.

Ray Maher

quote:Originally posted by Arthur.S:
Ray, have a look here when you're ready http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/kl.asp?AvdID=1&CatID=44&GrpID=1&t=1397&l=2#C44

Some good deals, & they're a good company to deal with. At least you know that the MB, CPU, RAM, & fan are all compatible. & that's pretty much the 'heart' of the system.

[This message has been edited by Arthur.S (edited 04 January 2004).]

Arthur,
Had a quick look at the sight,seems very good.
Thanks for that.

Ray Maher.

quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
Bernie,
I did a 4 cd back up when I first got my computer which must have me on it. Is this a way round it.

Ray Maher

i can send you a full cd for windows 98se if that would help , just as an unlock disc for the upgrade path

Quote
i can send you a full cd for windows 98se if that would help , just as an unlock disc for the upgrade path .Quote

Gary,

That would be very handy thanks a lot.
I will email you my address.

Cheers,

Ray Maher

quote:Originally posted by Ray Maher:
Bernie,
I did a 4 cd back up when I first got my computer which must have me on it. Is this a way round it.

Ray Maher

Probably not Ray but it appears Gary has come to the rescue yet again.

Bernie

Hi again Ray,
I would just like to second Robbiebee's comments about the benefit of using Two linked PC's. Again this is what I have done.

PC1 is my internet and everything else PC!Printer, office, kids games, photo stuff for digital stills camera etc etc. Runs winxp home.

PC2 is my NLE machine. (Speck below). Only video stuff installed.

Both are networked using the xp networking wizard - quite straight forward to set up. Watch for your firewall on the internet PC. It may need to be set in order to accept communication with the other PC.

I use 1 monitor, keyboard, speakers, and mic! These are all connected to a Belkin switcher box that then connects to the two PC's. I can switch between one and the other quite freely whilst capturing, encoding etc.
The only extra space needed is room for another PC box.

I thoroughly reccomend this way but it may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Good luck and keep us all posted on your developments and what you decide to do/build!

------------------
Spready
2000+ Athlon XP, MSI KT3V Motherboard, 728Mb DDR Ram, 10gb Boot & 80Gb video drives, Sony DRU500 DVD/RW.
Win XP Pro, Premiere 6.5, Scenalyzer Live, OHCI Firewire, DVD Workshop, Sony TRV80 Camera

Thanks Spready, will do.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray et al

Just some thoughts about "networking".

Networking PCs together in the classical sense is where you need or intend to share "everything" - I mean not just hardware e.g.printer(s) but also files and documents etc.

Now, at work I use a networked system and indeed can remotely link to via VPN (Virtual Private Network). This is done using the router mentioned below.

At home we have 2 PCs which can be used totally independently but sharing with a Belkin KVM (Keyboard/Video/Mouse) switch. Both these PCs are connected via their LAN ports to the ADSL router (this has a built-in hardware firewall) ~ this means that either PC can be in use on the internet without the need for the other to be turned on as is the case with Windows ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). Lastly, I have a print server attached to the Router this allows either PC to use the Printer attached to the setup ~ this being the only piece (aprt from the monitor,keyboard & mouse attached to the KVM) of hardware that needs to be shared.

In the situation/setup above the two key features are that the PCs can be used independently and they are both Firewall protected as required (though as belt & braces they also have ZoneAlarm installed)& they share the printer.

Personally, if I ever have the need to share files I will build myself a basic PC, also linkable to the spare port on my 4 port KVM, as a file server/strorage system. By this method of not allowing "shares" of the PC hard disk drives I do not leave myself open to one PC (user?) inadvertantly letting a virus, Trojan or other nasty infect the both systems. Here I state the obvious that both systems are protected by anti-virus software as well.

As I said just my thoughts about what is practical & sensible for my needs that others might benefit from!

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 05 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 06 January 2004).]

Ok, If I bought/built a second computer just for video editing I would want to use only one monitor ,keyboard and mouse.I would perhaps need to transfer files from the old computer such as photos etc.
Would the video machine have to be connected to the internet for say updates to studio8 etc or is there a way round it using the original machine.
I am going through all my options at the moment.
Thanks for your input guys.

Ray Maher

In the scenario I describe above either PC can access the Internet for updates as appropriate. You do not need to use the video editing PC for surfing or any other Internet related activity. Most program update functions will look for an Internet connection and setup as above it will find one as needed, though for purely practical reasons i.e. Windows updates via Internet Explorer you can check that the browser works and then forget about it. Having said that I think XP can "look" for updates without IE running?

Though I have not tried (never had or felt the need) it should be possible to temporarily share the hard disk drives for transfer of files etc but as you have an external CD burner IMHO it would make sense to burn your photos to CD for archive/backup purposes and then copy those that need to be used on the second PC as required from the CD.

Hope that makes logical sense.

Ray,
What i do is download the update / patch and then save it in my shared folder. When I need to use it / install it into my NLE machine, I boot up that one, open the shared folder in the Internet machne and their it is. It is then just a matter of copy and pasting it into my NLE hard drive.

I do not have a router and my NLE machine is not connected at all to the WWW.

Accessing photo's, sound files is just a matter of accessing the internet PC from the NLE machine and again copy and pasting whatever is needed.
Good luck!

[This message has been edited by Spready (edited 06 January 2004).]

Spready
2000+ Athlon XP, MSI KT3V Motherboard, 728Mb DDR Ram, 10gb Boot & 80Gb video drives, Sony DRU500 DVD/RW.
Win XP Pro, Premiere 6.5, Scenalyzer Live, OHCI Firewire, DVD Workshop, Sony TRV80 Camera QUOTE:

Spready,
Do you have your premier on the boot drive and edit everything down on to the 80gb.

Ray Maher.

Yes!
Only the programs are on the boot - Everything is saved to the video drive.
This has been quite enough for me but will probably soon get another bigger drive. The bigger the better!!!!
Be careful of the motherboard speck though - according to some people on here, their huge drives havn't been recognised due to them being newer than their motherboards bios. These though seem to be the new 200 - 250gb drives (a bit out of my league!!)
See ya,

Been down my local computer shop and they have a bare bones QBIC PC with 800FSB motherboard,onboard 6 channel sound and graphics,(vga slot available)ieee1394x2 and usbx4 and network,carry case £279.99 inc. vat.
I would need to add 1x40 and 1x80 hard disc,
p4 2.6 cpu and either 256 or 512 ddr ram memory.
Any thoughts.

Ray Maher

Looks good to me!
Memory - I would go for a 512 stick AND a 256 stick. Premiere and winXP, or whatever editing program you choose, are memory hungry!
Good luck, it will all be worth it in the end!

Just seen that you use Studio8. If possible try and find out what chipset the board in the barebones system is. See if this is compatible with studio8. I know alot of people have had problems with incompatibility but I am the wrong person to ask as I have never used it or seen it in action.

Perhaps others know how to test this???

Ray

QBIC are made by Soltek, a well respected brand (though perhaps not Premier League).

There are various models so as mentioned by Spready do ensure that it will be compatible with Studio8. Which model number are you looking at?

Another minor thing to bear in mind for your build is that if you using 2 HDDs you will either have to sacrifice using a floppy drive or use HDD adaptor plates to fit the drive in one of the 5.25" bays and thus lose one of the two CD drive bays ~ sorry if I have stated the obvious!

Personally I like the SFF (Small Form Factor) bare bones, expansion is a bit limited but they are neat and quiet. Built one for "she who must be obeyed" (Shuttle model) and it is whisper quiet.

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 07 January 2004).]

Just to update. They have quoted for adding a pentium 4, 3.06Ghz 800fsb a 512Mb DDR400 RAM
a120Gb 7200rpm hard disc(is partitioning as good as two separate drives)and a floppy drive the complete price is £674.16 inc vat.

Ray Maher

Searcher and Spready I take your points about compatibility. I have a cd writer and a dvd drive in the mothership so I assume I will not need one in the shuttle as I hope to network them.
One other point I am going to the video forum ,might I find any bargains there.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray

I surmised you would want one optical drive in the QBIC. Sharing those drives is certainly practical but not if you need for any reason e.g. re-installation of Operating System & I think I recall reading somewhere that some software will not allow you install it across a network! i.e.when networking is not available to you.

Ref Partitioning - is not equal to 2 HDDs. Partitioning is a good idea for all sorts of reasons (I use multipartitioned drives for separating data and programs and swap file). With video editing you need a separate drive for your storage and render. Just bear in mind that a partitioned drive makes use of the same set of heads and the head can not be reading/writing from two partitions at the same time.

HTH

PS I do not know enough about Studio 8 but if you have the version with the hardware PCI card I wonder if you will be able use that in the QBIC

PPS Having looked at the Soltek site again I note that there are some QBIC models with space for only one optical drive as well as those with space for 2 of them - just what QBIC model number are they quoting you for?

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 07 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 07 January 2004).]

QUOTE I surmised you would want one optical drive in the QBIC. Sharing those drives is certainly practical but not if you need for any reason e.g. re-installation of Operating System & I think I recall reading somewhere that some software will not allow you install it across a network! i.e.when networking is not available to you QUOTE

Searcher, I have an external pioneer 106 so there should be no problem there.

Just get them to confirm that the BIOS will allow you to boot from an external CD drive. Here I am surmising that your Pioneer is USB connected, I have yet to come across any reference to motherboard BIOS's booting from Firewire external drives.

HTH

Searcher,
The model no. is EQ 3401

Ray Maher

Ray, make sure the processor is a 'c' model e.g. p4 2.6c which can take advantage of the 800FSB motherboard. Also make sure in the quote that the DDR400 RAM comes in 2 equal sized sticks. This enables you to make use of the 800 FSB of the processor (hence dual channel) a single stick would give you a performance bottleneck. Dual channel operation will give things like software mpeg encoding a huge boost.

Trev

[This message has been edited by Trevor Page (edited 08 January 2004).]

This is the spec of the system....

Soltek EQ3401M
Skt 478 Barebone System

Model EQ3401
Dimensions 215x330x200 (LxWxH)
Front Panel Mirror Phase Plate
Case Material Aluminium (Black)
Front Panel 2 x USB Ports
1 x Mic-In Port
1 x Line-Out(Headset)
1 x IEEE1394 Port
1 x SPDIF Port

Back Panel 1 x VGA connector
2 x Serial Port
1 x Parallel Port (Optional)
1 x PS/2 Keyboard Port
1 x PS/2 Mouse Port
4 x USB 2.0/1.1 Port1
1 x Fast Ethernet 1/10/100 LAN Port
2 x IEEE 1394a Ports
1 x Line In, Line Out, 1 Mic In Port
(If using 6-channel Audio, you can share Line-out (Surround-out) Green, MIC-in (Center-Left out) Pink)

Power Supply 250W (PFC)
Extension Bay 5.25*2; 3.5*2

Mainboard Specification
Model SL-B8E-F
Processor Intel P4 Socket 478 processors @ 800/533/400MHz FSB
(Hyper Threading Supported)
Chipset Intel 865G (GMCH) + ICH5 (Supports Hyper Threading)
Memory Supports 2 x DDR 400/333/266/200 SDRAM (184-pin) Up to 2GB
VGA IntelR Extreme 256bit Graphics Core
IDE 2 x ATA 100, 2 x Serial ATA
Expansion Slots 1 x AGP (AGP 8X mode), 1 X PCI, 2 X DIMM Slots
Audio REALTEK 6-channel AC97 Audio Codec

LAN RTL8100B LAN Controller
Other Features IEEE1394 / Serial ATA

Ray Maher

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Page:
Ray, make sure the processor is a 'c' model e.g. p4 2.6c which can take advantage of the 800FSB motherboard. Also make sure in the quote that the DDR400 RAM comes in 2 equal sized sticks. This enables you to make use of the 800 FSB of the processor (hence dual channel) a single stick would give you a performance bottleneck. Dual channel operation will give things like software

mpeg encoding a huge boost.

Trev

[This message has been edited by Trevor Page (edited 08 January 2004).]

Trev
QBIC doesn,t support dual channel.

Ray Maher

Trev.
I am getting the shop to check inside their box cos the spec for the 3401 says 2x memory slots.

Ray Maher.

Soltek page
http://www.soltek.com.tw/soltek/product/qbic.php?isbn_st=SL-B8E-F&qisbn_st=EQ3401

With full spec.

quote:Originally posted by Trevor Page:
Ray, make sure the processor is a 'c' model e.g. p4 2.6c which can take advantage of the 800FSB motherboard. Also make sure in the quote that the DDR400 RAM comes in 2 equal sized sticks. This enables you to make use of the 800 FSB of the processor (hence dual channel) a single stick would give you a performance bottleneck. Dual channel operation will give things like software mpeg encoding a huge boost.

Trev

[This message has been edited by Trevor Page (edited 08 January 2004).]

Trev,
Correction to earlier post yes it does support dual channel and the processor is a c.

See the link from searcher for full spec.

Ray Maher.

From all the help and suggestions you have all given me I have worked out a spec for my computer.
The parts and prices have been sourced from CCL Computers Online

Soltek QBIC barebones system see link for spec http://www.soltek.com.tw/soltek/product/qbic.php?isbn_st=SL-B8E-F&qisbn_st=EQ3401
£186.36
1x3.0Ghz Intel P4 (Skt478 800 MhzFSB)
Northwood core 512K L2 cache,hyperthreading enabled.
£205.51

1x256MB DDR (pc3200) 400 memory £26.50
1x512Mb DDR (pc3200) 400 memory £49.76

1x 40Gb Maxtor D'Max Plus 8 7200rpm £40.27
1x 80Gb " " " " £46.73

This all comes to £555.13 against my computer store price of £674.16 which included £23.50 Labour.

Any thoughts.
I know nothing about building computers but would be willing to give it a go.Any help would be appreciated.

Ray Maher

[This message has been edited by Ray Maher (edited 09 January 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ray Maher (edited 09 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Searcher22:
Just get them to confirm that the BIOS will allow you to boot from an external CD drive. Here I am surmising that your Pioneer is USB connected, I have yet to come across any reference to motherboard BIOS's booting from Firewire external drives.

HTH

My pioneer 106 is firewire.

Ray Maher

Good Evening Ray

I have just downloaded the various manuals etc for this Qbic and very nice it looks too. But unlike some other manufacturers they seem to use mylar insulating "sheets" in a couple of areas where they leave very little room between live and grounded components!

But I can find no mention in the BIOS section about its ability to Boot from USB only from floppy or IDE connected devices.

So, it does look like you will have price in the cost a CD or DVD drive and a set of brackets to fit the second HDD in one of the 5.25" bays. Though of course you could forsake the need for a floppy drive as bootable CDs are commonplace.

Building it! These barebones have good manuals and from my experience you need to follow them to the letter because the cases when full are cramped and unless you install the various parts in sequence you have problem ~ only a minor one!

Any more questions just ask?

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 09 January 2004).]

Searcher,
Do they come with a manual or do I have to search on the web site.
Also, I was going to include a dvd/cd combo drive if only for copying from the pioneer, but I wanted to get the hard part out of the way first.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray

I always encourage PC owners to "get their hands dirty" - you`ll learn more from building ONE PC than you would otherwise do in years of just using one without understanding how ANY of it works.
You WILL hit problems (so accept it) but that`s a very neccessary part of the learning process - & as already stated there are a lot of very knowledgable folks on this board who will help you out when you`re stuck

In regard to your spec, the area where i`d reconsider is with the hard drives. As a general rule buying the largest or the smallest model in the range offers the worse value for money. Bear in mind that there always has been & always will be ONE drive in each range that offers the most "bangs per buck". It changes with time of course, but at present the best value ATA drive is the 120gig. I included 2 of these (with 8meg cache`s) in my system & i`d recommend `em. In fact ALL my drives are Maxtor - for good reason!
As the board you`ve chose allows for them you might also want to consider the SATA alternatives. I don`t use `em myself so i`m as yet unconvinced of any REAL benefits - perhaps someone else has a strong opinion?
They are a little more tho` , £72 against the ATA`s £62 for the 120gig.

Whether you go SATA (Serial interface in case you don`t know) or not i certainly wouldn`t buy a new 40gig drive these days (or a 80 come to mention it)
We`ve all been there..."no, the 40gig will be PLENTY big enough!"... only to find 2 months later...

Best of luck with it whichever you decide

josjac

p.s. is it just me who was under the impression that dual channel memory only works with equal sized sticks?

QUOTE//
josjac

p.s. is it just me who was under the impression that dual channel memory only works with equal sized sticks? QUOTE

I was wondering if anyone would come back to me on that as well.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray & josjac

Copied from the "hardware manual"

• To enable Dual-channel memory function, users should insert totally
identical (size and frequency) DDR module pair into the bank-pair.

I take this to mean that you can use differing sticks but will only get the advatages(?) or Dual Channel if you use "totally identical sticks " of memory.

As for what manual(s) you get in the box I think you need to ask that of the supplier but with the Shuttle (NB Not a Soltek Qbic) I had the assembly guide and a manual about the motherboard & its BIOS.

Thanks searcher, looks like it might be 2x512 then to get maximum performance.

Ray Maher.

QUOTE from searcher
But I can find no mention in the BIOS section about its ability to Boot from USB only from floppy or IDE connected devices.

So, it does look like you will have price in the cost a CD or DVD drive and a set of brackets to fit the second HDD in one of the 5.25" bays. Though of course you could forsake the need for a floppy drive as bootable CDs are commonplace.QUOTE..

Not sure what this means about being able to use my external firewire pioneer 106.

Ray Maher

I do not see an issue for using your firewire Pioneer 106. You can use it as you do now i.e. as drive recognised by the Operating system.

What I was trying to explain was that you could not use an external Firewire or USB drive as a boot device. Hence my comment about needing to price an optical drive into the build costs.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.???

Showing my ignorance, yes I understand now.

Thanks,

Ray Maher.

Oh one last but potentially important item to buy.

An earthing strap for yourself.

All PC components (well almost all ~ the PSU is not considered sensitive) are subject to damage by ESD (Electrostatic Discharge).

The earthing strap attaches to your wrist and an earth point.

I know some folk never bother.......? But better safe (from extra expense of replacement CPU,HDD,RAM etc) than sorry.

[This message has been edited by Searcher22 (edited 10 January 2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Searcher22:
I take this to mean that you can use differing sticks but will only get the advatages(?) or Dual Channel if you use "totally identical sticks " of memory.

Correct.

The p4 'c' processors have an 800MHz Front Side Bus. This FSB is used to communicate with among other things the RAM fitted to your PC. Each PC3200 RAM module is rated at 400MHz. If one module or different sized modules are fitted, the processor will only access one module at a time. This forces the processor to communicate with RAM at an effective 400MHz, or half the speed it can access properly configured dual channel memory.

It is not only the processor which communicates with RAM, DMA devices such as hard drives and DVD/CDROms do as well. Because these storage media have considerably slower data transfer rates, the faster FSB will not make disk access faster. However the memory bus time used by these devices will be halved (well almost) freeing up memory bandwidth for other device access.

Having double the speed memory access is quite an advantage

You can prove it to yourself with the system later by removing one of the memory modules and timing something like Tmpgenc to render the same file.

Trev

2x512Mb it is then.

Ray Maher

Hi Ray,
Glad to see you are getting on well and are nearly ready to get your hands dirty!

The setup looks good. I would abandon the floppy drive. I have one in my NLE system and have never used it! You can then use the space, presumably, to fit your 2nd hard drive.
The DVD-Rom and CD-RW combi as the systems internal drive is a good idea.

Good luck!

------------------
Spready
2000+ Athlon XP, MSI KT3V Motherboard, 728Mb DDR Ram, 10gb Boot & 80Gb video drives, Sony DRU500 DVD/RW.
Win XP Pro, Premiere 6.5, Scenalyzer Live, OHCI Firewire, DVD Workshop, Sony TRV80 Camera

Thanks spready . Its been an insight as to how much this forum can be of help to someone with no knowledge of what really makes a computer work.
The interesting part is yet to come .

Does anyone now if soltek or any of their products are likely to be at the video forum as I am going.

Ray Maher

[This message has been edited by Ray Maher (edited 11 January 2004).]

Just one comment on networking. I recently installed my first 'network.'. In effect, connecting my old PC with my new one. New one for NLE only, old one for Kids/everything else. I used Firenet. Fast via firewire - 400mbps, soon to be 800mbps. Cheap, just 2 firewire cards & a firewire cable to buy, plus the software which is also cheap!

quote:Originally posted by Arthur.S:
Just one comment on networking. I recently installed my first 'network.'. In effect, connecting my old PC with my new one. New one for NLE only, old one for Kids/everything else. I used Firenet. Fast via firewire - 400mbps, soon to be 800mbps. Cheap, just 2 firewire cards & a firewire cable to buy, plus the software which is also cheap!

Thanks, all options are welcome. Hopefully it doesn't seem as complicated as I first thought.
As both the systems will already have fire wire cards I assume I just have to buy the cable and the software.
PLEASE tell me it's that easy.

Ray Maher

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Arthur.S:
Just one comment on networking. I recently installed my first 'network.'. In effect, connecting my old PC with my new one. New one for NLE only, old one for Kids/everything else. I used Firenet. Fast via firewire - 400mbps, soon to be 800mbps. Cheap, just 2 firewire cards & a firewire cable to buy, plus the software which is also cheap!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, all options are welcome. Hopefully it doesn't seem as complicated as I first thought.
As both the systems will already have fire wire cards I assume I just have to buy the cable and the software.
PLEASE tell me it's that easy.

Ray Maher

If both machines are running windows xp , then you can just connect them with a cable , windows xp has firewire networking built in.

Great, that's one potential headache made easier.

Thanks ,

Ray Maher

Correct. My network is win2000 & XP. 2xXP should make things much easier.

I have just found this site . Seems quite informative.buildyourown.org.uk

Ray Maher

[This message has been edited by Ray Maher (edited 13 January 2004).]

I am waiting till after my visit to the video forum on the 10th before commiting myself finaly but this is the system I would like to go for.
You will notice I have included installation.
Maybe I will have more confidence after the 10th.

Ray Maher

Your basket contains:

CCL Computers - The Right Product, at the Right Price, at the Right Time

Shopping Cart (Prices in British Pounds)REF DESCRIPTION QTY PRICE COST REMOVE
BRB0001 Soltek EQ3401M (Skt478 Springdale)
£153.30 £153.30
RAM0010 512Mb DDR (PC3200) 400 x2
£45.65 £91.30
HDD0002 40Gb Maxtor D'Max Plus 8
£31.35 £31.35
HDD0004 80Gb Maxtor D'Max Plus 9
£38.94 £38.94
CPU6014 3.0Ghz Intel P4 OEM (Skt 478 800Mhz FSB)
£135.30 £135.30
ASSEMBLY System Assembly (Systems without O/S - build and test)
£25.00 £25.00
CDR2009 Samsung 52x24x52x 16x OEM DVD/CDRW
£30.53 £30.53
Subtotal £505.72
Shipping (Courier Service) £7.50
VAT £89.82
Total £603.04